Braves 1, Phillies 1, Jose Ramirez slowly backing out the door

Oh yeah. Tuesdays.

I actually watched this game. Kinda. I was upstairs playing Civ 5, because I refuse to relearn Civ again just to get fancier graphics, and then Lisa, my wife, a woman who actually puts up with my crap on a daily basis and has for over a quarter century now, so honestly boys, quit your whining, she looks at me and says “don’t you recap Tuesdays or something” and I’m like “yeah” and she’s all like “then shouldn’t you have the game on or something” and I’m like “this kind of back talk would totally get you killed in the Bible, woman” but then I went downstairs and turned on the telly anyway and started composing this sentence which is literally like seven run-ons at once.

It was the third and the Slavic god of folting, which is the birthing process of centaurs, walked Carlos Santana, but not the “Black Magic Woman” version, and then that guy with the highlighted mini-dreads in CF singled in someone else to tie it up. But then animal husbandry half horse men god got one of his many double play balls, which made the booth guys happy, but made the stats guys roll their eyes about BABIP.

Then the game went into a nobody-hits zone, and Preston Tucker continued to be “not the Black Magic Woman” version of Preston Tucker too, and Ronald Acuna hit a monster shot in Gwinnett, so that’s going to start again I’m sure. Somewhere along the way I was getting bored and surfing my phone, because at heart I’m 13 year old girl with a penchant for cursing like a sailor, but not a Sailor Moon, because seriously guys. That’s creepy.

The Folts-singer dude somehow made it through six, and the booth guys were like ERMAHGAH HE WENT SIX FULL!! and the old guys that remember when that was actually just a “quality start” rolled their eyes.

There followed a seven year war of eye rolling.

Gabe Kapler started doing that USE ALL THE GUYS! thing he does and in the seventh Petey Moylan came on for Atlanta. Lisa looks up from her book and just randomly pipes “that guy looks like he should be a college professor at a small university, but maybe he’s got a dark secret and turns into a werewolf on the full moon.” And after 25 odd years, I’m well aware that this is going to be the absolute peak of my night, so I turned it off and went back upstairs.

Apparently Jose Ramirez blew it up in the 10th and we lost. Sorry.

93 thoughts on “Braves 1, Phillies 1, Jose Ramirez slowly backing out the door”

  1. Donny @67, last thread:

    I generally refrain from going directly after anyone on forums.

    You’re internetting wrong.

  2. The term “analytics” has become so tainted nowadays. At this point, what are the brands of statistics that people don’t want to look at? 5 years ago, we weren’t talking about wRC+, WAR, etc., and I think the’re pretty widely accepted now. And to help things, it seems to me that there are less advanced stats being used by the knowledgeable fan than before. When was the last time you heard VORP? And things like BB/9 (or K, HR, H, etc./9) are simple enough to understand. The newest of the newest seems to be launch angle and exit velo. I mean, is that really that crazy? Shoot, MLB itself popularized it.

    Personally, I’ve been fine with Snit’s bullpen management, and while I’d like to know if Snit is using Minter specifically as a fireman while “undervaluing” Vizzy in the closer role, which is how it seems, I like the way he’s played the hand he’s dealt. At the end of the day, Ramirez is your 6th-best reliever. He’s going to blow the game every now and again. Yes, your 6th best reliever is not supposed to have a 17 ERA, but now that he does, he’ll probably be gone soon. Carle then becomes your 6th-best reliever, and that’ll probably work out fine, but he’ll still blow leads. It’s just not realistic for this team to have 6 deep of relievers at this juncture.

    After all, how did we get from “this team will struggle to win 75” to “we need 8 above average relievers in the pen STAAAAAAAT!” If you had said this past offseason something to the effect of, “This team could be really good if the young players play well, so I hope they’re not leaving the roster incomplete in the very possible event we’re good”, then you have a gripe.

    What’s the expression? “I told you so”? Yeah, I think that’s what I’m saying here.

  3. Braves sign Jose Bautista to a $1m deal, but that’s not even the craziest part. He’s gonna practice at third in extended spring training. Maybe he can get tips on fielding grounders from Freddie.

  4. @2 Rob, I was saying that all winter and so were a lot of other folks. People expected the Braves to bring in at least one top notch reliever (like Addison Reed or some such). We had expectations for Freeman, Minter, Winkler, Viz based upon last year’s performances and a 5th top reliever would have been nice. What we got were pitchers who were wishes – Kazmir, Ravin, Dayton, Carle, Brothers, Whitley and I don’t know who else I could name. Many of us hoped Ramirez would continue to outpitch his peripherals but the current result is not altogether unexpected. All we signed was Moylan which was pretty much, meh. After not signing anyone significant, I hoped (and continue to hope) that we would be leaning on, specifically, Fried and Biddle and Morris because they held out the best hope for becoming the kind of relievers we need. I hated the Sanchez signing but, in retrospect, with Gohara going down, it was not bad. I pushed and hoped for a real signing at 3B – a short term signing like Frazier or Moustakas or Walker (two of which could have been had w/o loss of draft pick) – but failing that the signing of Flaherty and now Bautista just disgusts me. I am happy that Flaherty is doing well and I think he’s better than Culberson, but I sure hoped for more. Same is true in the OF – either Dickerson or Cave would have been nice signings. I’m glad Tucker is doing well and hope he becomes as good as either of those two, but I was hoping for a replacement not only for Kemp but also Markakis. So I feel particularly justified in criticizing some of the moves both AA and Snitker have made because I think they could have done better and said so many times (maybe not only here, but other places, too).

    I always felt like the analytic predictions underrated the Braves (which has been written about in the media, too) and they only needed to do some mild upgrading as mentioned above to be really competitive. Dave Cameron at Fangraphs has been saying the major league product in Atlanta has been neglected for years throughout the rebuild. I think he’s right to an extent and even AA made his pronouncement that this year as “all about the major league product”. We have a lot of reason to expect more out of both AA and Snitker.

  5. I like the Bautista deal. He has played a few times at third over the last few years.

    If he still has something in the tank, great.

  6. @2, the terribad bullpen is a decent part of the 75 win projections. What’s wrong with wanting to fix that? Why do we have to wait for some vague future date where we are just gonna “go for it” all at once?

    The 25-man roster is still garbage, but there’s hope in a few places. The pen remains a neglected black hole. You could argue we got worse in the offseason there.

  7. Snitker might not be as bad as Fredi, but you have to walk Hoskins with the game on the line and a guy hitting 0.044 up next. That was a very bad Snitkering.

  8. @5 Roger, you keep dropping Snitker’s name in all these different areas like analytics and now, apparently, front office decisions. As I asked in the previous recap, I think I need you to describe for me what you think analytics looks like in baseball, and now I’m also interested in a walkthrough of the transaction process. I’m looking for something like a flowchart so we can understand what you think actually happens in these scenarios, where information originates from, and how it gets to where it needs to go. :)

  9. Not expecting anything from Bautista. He was bad last year and I doubt will be any good at third.

  10. Someone posted on Twitter that Teheran has doubled the use of his slider in his last 2 starts, using it about 32% of the time. Makes sense as he is struggling to touch 90.

  11. @9 Our guys are going to get Snitker’d from time to time, but one thing I’ll probably never forget is that I grew up watching Bobby Cox do stupid things. Find me an MLB manager who doesn’t do stupid things — I doubt they exist.

    Whatever the Braves have got going in the analytics department, we don’t know to what extent they are letting the data override their judgements. For instance, maybe they allow for more autonomy on the mound, and the reliever wanted to pitch to Hoskins. Yeah, that’s stupid. But with a coach like Snitker, he will achieve a higher amount of loyalty from his guys (which does pay off in the clubhouse) than other types of managers will.

    I like that about Snitker. I bet his teams don’t evaporate through the last weeks of the season, but that is yet to be seen.

  12. You don’t have to expect anything from him. He’s literally a million dollar flier at AAA. If he hits, he pushes Charlie Culberson off the MLB roster and turns the back half of your infield depth into Camargo/Bautista/Flaherty. That’s a pretty big improvement over what they have now.

    Then Acuna comes up and pushes either Bourjos or Adams to AAA, and you have an honest to god MLB roster.

  13. Bautista is interesting, and he certainly deserves to have a shot at third base. I’m sure AA wouldn’t have brought in a former player if he wasn’t going to get a legitimate shot. The good thing, though, is Bautista will have to earn it, and if he wants to stay in the league, this may be his last shot.

    How do we go from Fun Police to Joey Bats so quickly? This organization is getting with it in a hurry.

  14. Yeah, I just don’t have a problem with a lot of the moves Snit has made that people have issues with. Ramirez can’t throw strikes, so you’re not going to walk Hoskins to walk the bases loaded in hopes that Ramirez doesn’t walk in a run. Ramirez needed to get an out, and he couldn’t. Bottom line. On the player, 100%.

  15. It looks to me that the Braves decided they’d rather roll with placeholder guys at 3B this season instead of signing a mid-tier FA to a multi year deal, under the theory that in 2019, 3B will either be occupied by a relatively bigger name free agent or Austin Riley (if he continues to hit well in AA and above).

    Joey Bats matches well with the Braves’ needs – if it turns out he can still hit, then he plays 3B this year for $1M, and it doesn’t cause any complications for the Braves’ long range 3B plans. If Bautista is toast, they’re out almost no $$ .

  16. The good thing about the Bautista signing is that he has the slight potential to equal the performance of the mid-tier selections. I like AA’s thought process of spending $1M on a retread in hopes that they can catch lightning-in-a-bottle. This may be showing some ignorance, but you pay $7M for Touki, and what is the percentage chance he even produces 2 major league WAR? On the flip side, what if you signed 7 $1M players. What are the odds they will cumulative produce 2 major league WAR? I’d think the odds were higher.

  17. Plus, if you signed 7 $1M players, and one did become a useful piece, you could have probably traded that player at the deadline for someone similar to Touki anyway. Of course, the market for veteran players was different in 2015 vs. now, so it’s hard to gauge what players you could have acquired for $1M.

  18. Joey Bats is way more exciting, and potentially far more useful, than Ryan friggin’ Flaherty people. This is a good day.

    Also, put me down with the “Snitker is doing a decent enough job with a slapdash pen” contingent. This team is still above .500, ya know?

  19. When we’re considerably under .500 I will be interested to see if this mindset still holds.

  20. AA said on Craig Mish’s show that Soroka is “very, very close”. It’s hard for me to think he could hit the rotation as a 20-year old, but… Acuna. Who knows nowadays.

  21. I just now saw that Jesse Biddle was called up to replace Ramirez.

    Now that Biddle is on the roster, I think it’s fair to be excited about him. He’s a lefty, and a former strong starting pitching prospect for Philly. He stalled as an SP as he got up to AA, and then went down to TJ. Atlanta then picked him up, and he’s pitched well as a reliever for AA last year and AAA so far this year. He improved his walk and K rate when he transitioned to relief, and he pitched well enough at AA that it seemed like there must have been a reason why he wasn’t getting called up last year. He didn’t pitch much in ST which further led me to believe something was up. He’s still young (26), so there’s no reason to think he can’t play a major role in the pen, assuming he’s healthy.

    In my opinion, if he’s healthy, he’s up there with Dan Winkler as relievers we sniped while they were injured and can play a role for us.

  22. Who else is bringing in Jose Ramirez in late tie games? I think that’s the manager.

    I get that he doesn’t have the pieces. Let’s make it a lot harder for Snitker to make bad decisions – give him a real roster. At that point I guess I won’t complain.

  23. I’m not sure who else they could have used. Minter threw 24 pitches the night previous, and the other top 4 relievers had been used. That’s FO, man.

  24. Didn’t the Braves fight Bautista a year ago for flipping his bat? How is that going to go in the clubhouse?

  25. I’m not shaking fists at clouds here, I’m just mostly confused as to why you’d manage your pen as if they were good, when you know for a first-hand fact that they are bad.

    You can go all Gabe Kapler if you have a lot of interchangeable options, but Snit has options that really should never be in the game unless we’re down two touchdowns.

    Really what everyone is saying to me here is that we’re just punting another season so you shouldn’t care. Let Snit manage as if he has the horses, and and some point AA will actually provide the horses. That’s fine. I get it. But we’re back to the “not trying to win” stuff, and that aggravates me to no end.

  26. Jesse Biddle
    has shown us he’s fit as a not messy fiddle
    once felled and concussed by a giant hailstone
    he now features a much discussed and more pliant tail bone.

    the bullpen walk
    has been the subject of a lot of talk
    those in favor of no pitcher discarding
    point out it’s better than a major bombarding.

  27. I’m not starting a war but it shows how far we have come as Braves fans (the wrong way) when Jesse Biddle and a 38 year old washed up guy, excites us.

    All that Battery money…

  28. Anibal Sanchez injured during pregame workouts. Had to be carted off the field. That’s a bummer.

  29. @30 Then just admit that you don’t have a clue about how analytics in baseball work. Same also goes for your blaming of Snitker for the Braves’ offseason transactions.

  30. @36 Leg injury. He was sprinting in the outfield and suddenly went down while grabbing his hamstring. Sounds like they placed it in an air cast and carted him off the field.

    Some players are just injury prone beyond belief…

  31. AA has given indication the Soroka era was soon to begin. I’m guessing it won’t be Sanchez’s start because Soroka pitched last night, but it may be the next time through.

    I’m not sure who is scheduled to pitch for Gwinnett tomorrow. Maybe Max Fried? Whoever it is will likely be tomorrow’s starting pitcher. Lucas Sims is another possibility.

  32. Bowman says Wisler is scheduled to start tomorrow. So it will probably be him.

    Sucks about Sanchez. He had been a pleasant surprise so far.

  33. @34..Chief

    excitement from something entirely non sexual
    but still in its way so charmingly effectual
    will come from discussing
    a TJ leftie, a veteran presence, with the very maximum of fussing.

  34. I think Camargo played earlier today for Gwinnett so I doubt he rejoins the starting lineup until tomorrow.

  35. The Phillies have decided to let kids from local baseball leagues shag balls in the outfield instead of their pitchers, with the hope that their pitchers will avoid injury like the one Mariano Rivera sustained a few years back.

  36. Well, I had a busy day and couldn’t compulsively check Braves news as I usually do, so what do I discover–the busiest roster day in weeks!

    Joey Bats! Camargo and Biddle up! Anibal hurt! Ramirez on the 10 day DL, never to be seen again. Thoppy teasing that Acuna and Soroka may soon relegate Ozzie to being only the third youngest player in MLB.

    Y’all can argue all you want about whether AA should have signed moustakis or frazier, or a shutdown reliever (and I’m not expressing an opinion on that), but so far I’m enjoying this season a hell of a lot more than the last three.

  37. I’m not necessarily defending AA’s construction of the 25 man roster, but it is worth remembering how bad the bench and bullpen were last April. The three bench bats (and I use the term loosely) were Bonifacio, Jace, and Chase D’Arnaud. That’s got to be in the running for worst bench ever.
    And in the pen two of the go to guys were the corpse of EOF and radio station KROL, both of whom had ERAs over 7.

  38. That was bound to happen. The encouraging thing, as you noted before, is that the starters have really been pitching well.

  39. Just as I implied that guys like Flaherty were bound to come back to earth, he just put one in orbit.

  40. @37 Donny, what makes you think you know anything about analytics? There’s real possibility I know more than you. I certainly have more training and knowledge about it than you (I’m anxious to see you prove you have any education or knowledge about anything). I’m not sure you can read a stat sheet. Just because you don’t like my opinion doesn’t mean I’m wrong. It’s well know that Snitker is liked by the players (i.e. a good player manager) and it’s becoming increasingly obvious that he has no idea how to make a critical in game decision. Give it a rest and try to prove me wrong instead of trying to judge me vs. the data. From now on, I’m ignoring you because you are not worth it.

  41. So throwing four balls for an intentional walk and mound visits disrupt the pace of the game, but not the umpires standing around for these reviews?

  42. @34 Chief, I understand how you feel. I hope Biddle is lights out and you will ultimately change your opinion after he has proven himself for a couple of months (to begin with, anyway). I am excited about him because he has performed well in the minors and has a prospect pedigree from before he had TJS. Winkler had a couple of devastating injuries and is pitching very well now.

  43. I’m no scout, but I love what I’ve seen from Shane Carle. He’s shown great command of all his pitches (unlike most of his colleagues in the pen) and even Tom Glavine was just raving about his change up.
    I don’t know if he can kept this up, but I think he’s been more good than lucky.

  44. What little Braves I’ve been able to catch on TV this year has mostly been with S-Car on the mound. He’s looked really good.

  45. Carle is growing on me quickly. Did a great job bailing out McCarthy. Threw strikes. He doesn’t have much in his history to say he can pitch this good but he has not been used as a middle reliever before. It may be the role he is suited for. Great results so far.

  46. The gNats just got “Ramirez’d” by the Mets. Gave the Mets a 9-run 8th of their own. Of course, they only blew a 2-run lead.

  47. It’s remarkable how different Dansby is at the plate this year. He fought off several sliders that he would have whiffed on last year, and when he gets the heater on the inner half he doesn’t miss it.

  48. I’m really enjoying the resiliency of this team. I know that it is about as statistically relevant as “clutchiness”, but the Braves have been extremely streaky (mostly bad streaks) over the last few years. This year they haven’t lost more than 2 in a row and haven’t won more than 3 in a row. They seem to bounce back and play well after horrible games or games like last night that are extremely frustrating. This is a lot more fun than getting your hopes up after a 5 game win streak only to have them crushed by a 7 game losing streak.

  49. @79
    Agreed. This is a very likable team. Even if they suck, it sure beats rooting for AJ Pierzynski. Even Preston Tucker has horforded his way into the jowly cockles of my Bulldawg heart.

  50. Learning curve. Ozzie has had his first really bad game, at least defensively. Part of the process, sure, but what disappointed last night was one misplay seemed to lead to the next. No indication he was able to put it behind him. He had lost his famed self confidence. The pick off at first was maybe an attempt to register a positive, at the wrong time.

    So he’s human. I was beginning to wonder. At least he picked a game where we ended with sufficient runs to cover for him.

    A delight to see Ender frolicking in the spring warmth with a fabulous catch and three hits. Was ever a man so susceptible to temperature.

  51. @85 thanks

    Embarrassed to find myself surprised at Girardi’s newly authoritative studio voice. Always thought of him as meekish in that department. Maybe cos’ he’s so small. Bad!

  52. @86

    Any 37 year old man who can report to Florida at 6 in the morning at no notice for his medical has earned our respect. And just ONE million? Wow.

    Awaiting ‘best shape of his life’ confirmation.

  53. @54 Roger, you say you’re anxious for me to prove I have any education or knowledge about anything, but then you conclude (basically your only real response to my inquiries) by saying you’re going to ignore me. I actually hope you do have better qualifications than my own, because I really wanted to know why you were blaming Snitker for how the team is using analytics. It was only when you said you didn’t care what I wanted that this thing turned south (and personal).

    If you decide you’re not going to just ignore me, we can have a rationale discussion on what Snitker actually does, what it looks like for the Braves (and other MLB teams) to actually use data science, and what those changes really look like across the landscape.

    Until then, I don’t want to write too long of a response for fear that it’s just getting overlooked.

  54. I certainly hope that Freddie doesn’t miss much time. It’s time to get this guy some batting armor for that wrist.

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