Braves 3, Giants 2

San Francisco Giants vs. Atlanta Braves – Box Score – August 05, 2010 – ESPN.

Well, we still can’t get any hits with runners in scoring position, but got enough runs on homers to win anyway. Of course, this team’s been underpowered all year…

Jair Jurrjens was probably less impressive than he’s been in any game since coming off the disabled list, allowing seven hits (five of them doubles!) and walking three, versus the same number of strikeouts, in six innings of work. But unlike his other games this year, the hits were all spread out and did just about the mimimum amount of damage. The Giants got a run in the first on a groundout, and another run in the second on a two-out double that fortunately only scored one run, with the pitcher Tim Lincecum only able to make it from first to third.

The Braves tied it up in the second, as Ankiel led off with a walk and Gonzalez followed with a homer. After that, it was tightrope time, as the Giants, for once, were the team with all the chances that they couldn’t cash in. The Braves didn’t really threaten… but with two out in the sixth, Hinske hit a solo homer to make it 3-2.

Venters came in for Jurrjens in the seventh, and was even more electric than usual, throwing eight strikes in eight pitches, recording two strikeouts and a 1-3 putout. The Braves couldn’t capitalize on a chance in the seventh, with Heyward grounding out and Chipper flying out with two runners on. Saito cruised through the eighth with no trouble, two flyouts and a popout. Billy Wagner lived dangerously but lived to tell about it, allowing a long flyout then catching a comebacker from Edgar Renteria, then a two-out single before rallying to strike out Freddie Sanchez to end it.

Homers. Good thing to hit. Let’s keep it up.

154 thoughts on “Braves 3, Giants 2”

  1. Nunez pitched a bunch yesterday. It’s not his fault. Also, Hanley’s blown two plays.

  2. Neat. Somehow the fins kept Werth at second on a run down, then picked him off retardly trying to steal third.

  3. Wow some terrible phillies baserunning there.

    Also, I feel like I should mention that Dominic Brown has a really stupid looking batting stance.

  4. Wow, second and third with no out and the Phillies squander it all. Out at home and two caught stealing, that is really impressive.

  5. The Phillies have the Mets next….hopefully the Mets show up. Santana out for the year, Youkilis gone for the year, Medlen likely done, Glaus looks done, Utley is out, Rollins is not healthy and Howard is hurt…..been a tough year for injuries.

  6. I normally hate the Marlins announcers….but they are dead on about this. Awful, Awful call.

  7. Sanchez hit a game winning double down the line that Balk Davidson called foul. Replays showed it was obviously fair. The Marlins announcers are going ballistic.

  8. Once they saw the replay they started screaming and shouting about how bad the call was. It was a terrible call, but their reactions were so over the top.

  9. Davidson was watching the ball go over the bag and called it foul right as it landed in fair territory. Looked like the ball had some weird spin on it.

  10. Answering csg’s question in the last thread…

    Each person who has Tommy John surgery has a different recovery time. It only took Hudson and Moylan about 12-13 months. Some guys it takes up to 18 months.

    But the ASB would be too early. It would probably be August at the earliest for a return next season for him.

  11. I just realized that you guys are watching the game on MLB Network.

    Will Ohman is even uglier than he used to be.

  12. @36, He has the rule right. If he sees the ball “bound past” the base in foul territory, it doesn’t matter where it lands. It only matters where it lands if it crosses third in fair territory.

    However, he made a bad call.

  13. Bobby would have DEFINITELY gotten tossed…that’s one thing I will miss about him. I like Harold Reynolds…

  14. Terrible, terrible call. The incompetence of these umpires has become simply mind boggling.

    Wagner’s save was one of the least impressive I’ve ever seen. He was lucky. Venters was awesome. JJ struggled but he had some bad luck on some of the balls early.

    Nice win but Bob Davidson is preventing the night from being better.

  15. @40–Yeah, but it’s pretty hard to imagine the ball was foul when it passed the bag but then landed in fair territory–would have taken some mighty funny spin or bounces. Easier to believe the ump just blew it.

  16. But the Braves BEAT Linecum!

    Hell yeah folks.

    Was at the Ted last night in the series finale vs the Mets. Had an event at the 755 Club. Let me tell you: ballpark food to me is a hotdog and beer. But in several visits to the 755 Club area, I’ve been very impressed with all of their food.

    Hell, I could eat 2 or 3 of their pizzas per sitting. Cost per slice: about 17 bucks and a Braves RBI with runners in scoring position.

  17. stanton with a leadoff single. helms, who kills us, is up now and will obviously hit into a gidp. nvm…he just strikes out. stanton steals 2nd.

  18. sounds like either way the Braves dont think Medlen will be able to pitch next year. Might as well give it a few weeks to see if he needs the surgery. Partial tears arent promising

  19. “If that’s the case, why do we ever need to care where the ball lands?”

    The ball bounced before reaching third; it matters where it goes over the bag. It that was a line drive Davidson would have called it fair.

  20. If a ground ball goes over the bag, it’s a fair ball. Doesn’t matter where it lands.

  21. @47, Yeah, it was even clear live that he blew it. On replay, too. The first time that ball sniffed foul territory was well after it landed fair past third.

  22. so, the phillies get 2 extra home games and this game?

    the johnny damon call would have tied the game. it went our way, but its different than this.

  23. A “partial tear” doesn’t necessarily mean surgery. Obviously, Medlen’s probably not going to throw another pitch this year. Ervin (Johan) Santana has had similar problems with small tears in the UCL and has never had Tommy John surgery. The ligament has the capacity to heal, again, this depends on how “partial” the tear is. If it’s small, hands off a baseball for several months may allow it to heal. Any deeper, though, and Tommy John is really the only alternative.

  24. Smitty, I was thinking the same thing. 29 years is enough for Old Bob. It was a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE call….that should be the end of it.

  25. The Fish got screwed. Braves would’ve added a game to the lead.

    So fucking what. I hate the Fish. They deserve a bad call for the hex they’ve put on the Braves.

    And damn it all: the Braves are gonna have to beat the Phils in the last 2 to 3 weeks to win the division anyway.

    Bob Davidson is a moron…but I love to see Dan Uggla cry with all that eye shadow he wears.

  26. 63 — Well, they’re going to wait the usual 2 weeks and see how he feels before deciding what to do. I am not optimistic.

    The question I was answering though was how long the recovery time would be if he had the surgery.

  27. MLB doesn’t fire umpires for sucking at their jobs. Otherwise CB Bucknor and Angel Hernandez would have been fired a long time ago. These dickless incompetents have the job security of a federal judge. It’s embarrassing.

  28. MLB Umpire job security > federal employee job security.

    Gross imcompetence > utterly gross imcompetence.

    God Bless America.

  29. Six teams for four playoff spots. The last two months are going to be fun.

    We beat Lincecum. At least we have that to cheer about!

  30. Remy, the guy who hit that ball is Andruw Jones’ Japanese doppelganger, right down to wearing number 25.

  31. #81

    You’re right! Same goofy look on his face and everything. (Though you can understand why he’d be dumbfounded.)

    What I like about the video is that the RF tries so hard to keep it together after making the catch.

  32. I HATE Alex Gonzalez.

    I HATE him and his STUPID home runs.

    I bet he’s only doing that to try to make Yunel look bad.

  33. @ Carl from the last thread-
    I was planning on going to at least one of the Braves/Rockies games, as I live only 50 miles away. Wednesday would work just fine. I’ll be going with a Cubs fan, so meeting up with another Braves fan would be great.
    In my experience the visiting team’s fans at Coors sit… well, everywhere. Especially with a popular team like the Braves. I’ll be in the Rock Pile myself.

  34. remy, that catch is ridiculous. thanks for the link.

    i found this quite funny. it’s eric hinske on his new hairdo:
    “I shaved it into a Mohawk first, to see if it’d look cool. And it didn’t look cool. So I took it all down.”

  35. I hate to see that KK got sent down. So I guess it’s Minor taking Medlen’s spot after all?

    Hope we get good Tommy tonight.

  36. You know what would be nice? If someone would beat the Utleyless, Howardless, Victorinoless Phillies. Although to be fair, the Marlins did beat the Phillies last night were it not for Balk-a-day.

  37. Think how much Utley, Howard and Victorino are going to bring the Phillies down when they get back. Maybe they will slow down. The eventually have to, don’t they?

  38. I know you take it one day at a time, but I feel better looking at the Phillies’ schedule.

    Beginning August 17th they play 24 games in 23 straight days. That span includes a west coast trip right in the middle of it.

    vs. SF
    vs. WAS
    vs. HOU
    @ SD (no travel day)
    @ LA
    @ COL (For one game)
    vs. MIL
    vs. FLA (1st game of series is doubleheader)

    Despite a healthy dose of the astros, nats and brewers that’s still not an easy stretch with all the travel involved. Hopefully that’s when the Braves can create some seperation.

  39. @90, @91, Howard and Victorino will help some, but Utley’s the one that’s really really better than his replacement(s). Victorino may not even start full time. Gload isn’t as effective offensively as Howard, but him not sucking at first mitigates that. There’s not a huge gap. Combined, there’s a good chance they wouldn’t even be worth one win over the people taking their at bats if they came back right now.

    Utley, though. You’re going from some Valdez/Dobbs sucktastic combination to the best player at his position in the league. If he were to come back now, he might be worth three wins over the fillers that are probably worse than what stats people set as “replacement level.” Even the month they get out of him has a reasonable chance of being worth a couple of wins.

    If Utley was healthy, I doubt we’d win the division. However, he’s not, and he’s not coming back for three weeks, so I still like our chances.

  40. @ 92

    If we can’t get that separation, we are looking at a September dogfight. The last time we were in one of those was 2001 (w/ the Phillies).

  41. If Wren was worth a damn, he would trade KK for Utley straight up. I bet Bobby Cox is keeping him from doing it because he doesn’t like Utley.



  42. Anyone else notice last night that the organist played “Puff the Magic Dragon” during every Lincecum at bat?

  43. Not sure that any player is worth three wins over replacement at this point in the season. I’m looking forward to beating the Phillies at full strength. We’re 6-5 head-to-head this season with Howard and Victorino in all those games. Utley was in all but the last three game series. Bring ’em on.

  44. Hmm, not sure what’s going on there. The gist of Burns’ comments is that he believes the leadership style of a manager who provides calm and does not publicly dictate to his players (typified in his mind by Joe Torre) is a more successful style than the more open challenging/controlling approach (typified by Billy Martin).

  45. An interesting, if unprovable thesis. Burns is an amazing filmmaker. The fact that he’s made a film about baseball doesn’t necessarily establish him as an authority, but I wouldn’t dismiss his ideas out of hand. Truth to tell though, I found Baseball, while a fine film, to be far from his best effort.

  46. I like all the Ken Burns docs a great deal. (Own 3 of them.) I think the “Jazz” one is really underrated, too. But I think “The Civil War” is easily the most moving & probably his lasting legacy.

    And count me in as one who finds the whole Torre Era in NY pretty fascinating. Just finished the Steinbrenner book & it was kind of like watching a Sopranos episode. Every few minutes you’re reminded that, between all the hi-jinks & intrigue, this guy was really was an impossible and often horrible person.

    That Torre could succeed to that level with those players isn’t shocking. That he could continue to do it for a decade in the midst of that near-constant insanity is remarkable.

    Here’s the latest “Doesn’t-Henry-Aaron-look-better-than-ever?” columns. By Harvey Araton in the NY Times.

  47. As a jazz snob, I thought “Jazz” was by far his worst work. I have major issues with how it is structured/weighted/organized. I don’t think he got it right there, which disappointed me because he usually does.

    Baseball and The Civil War are two of the most enjoyable things I’ve ever watched though.

  48. Obviously, TCW is his master work, and certainly was the full flowering of his documentary model. I liked Jazz, and certainly wanted to love it – it concentrated on the period I like best. But, like Baseball, it gave short shrift to the modern period, and seemed to overwhelmingly represent a single point of view (Wynton Marsalis’). Listening to Wynton describe Buddy Bolden in the first person, when there are no known recordings and only one photograph of the man was a bit much.

    /edit – if any episode of TCW is on and I happen to surf across it I will stop what I am doing to watch it.

  49. I’m two discs into the national parks one, and it’s aggravating how he treats their history as a story of Great Men Doing Great Things Through Sheer Willpower. Same with what I’ve seen of the baseball doc. It’s nice, but ultimately reductive storytelling.

  50. @107
    Liked the National Parks doc so much that it changed what my vacation destinations will be for the rest of my life.

  51. “…seemed to overwhelmingly represent a single point of view (Wynton Marsalis’).”

    A point of view that I loathe at that.

  52. @106

    Burns is doing a “10th Inning” for the Baseball doc that should cover everything after the 1994 strike season.

    I got the box set of the Baseball doc for Christmas and I thought it was great. Looking forward to the 10th Inning as well. I also got the HBO series “When It Was a Game”, but I haven’t got around to watching it yet.

  53. @99, I meant 3 wins net over the below-replacement scrubs taking his at bats right now.

    Let’s look at it this way, saying Utley is 7.5 wins above replacement in a normal year is not outrageous. There is a third of the season left to play, so it would not be weird, if Utley were healthy right now, for him to be worth 2.5 wins over replacement the rest of the way. Saying his replacement combo would be 1.5 under “replacement level” if they played a whole season is also not outrageous. The net left for a third of the season would be three wins.

    That’s just the estimation I do in my head while I’m typing. Utley’s replacements probably aren’t that bad, but, as usual, I didn’t bother consulting any actual statistics.

    Anyway, it’s all academic, as Utley is out three more weeks.

  54. @104, The Civil War is his lasting legacy because of all the techniques it introduced to a wide audience. I don’t know enough about film history to know if he pioneered that approach, but I know I had never seen anything like it. Heck, every highschool graduation montage video since the mid-90s owes something to The Civil War.

  55. I think “The Civil War” and “The War” are true masterpieces. I didn’t like “Baseball” that much; I thought it was a bit pretentious and too somber. I suspect Burn’s thoughts on managers are more a reflection of what kind of person he prefers rather than a real analysis of what makes a good manager. Burns and Bob Costas both represent, to me, an overly intellectual approach to what is, after all, a game.

  56. Burns and Bob Costas both represent, to me, an overly intellectual approach to what is, after all, a game.

    If you change that to “pseudo-intellectual” I am right there with you.

  57. I brought in the piece by Burns just for perspective. I certainly don’t think Burns is the end-all-be-all expert, nor do I think his views are any more “provable” than are opposing views. But he does have a deep historical understanding of baseball, so his views are worth considering.

  58. Burn’s ‘The Civil War’ is some of the best TV I have ever watched. I tried Baseball but since it didn’t approach TCW I gave up.

  59. @120

    That’s cool — he’s certainly valid, just not my cup o’ tea, stylistically speaking.

  60. The Fangraphs article on KK led me to wonder if Bobby buried him becuase of attitude. KK was a stud in Japan. Demoted to the bullpen would have been hard to take for a proud guy used to being treated with more respect. As much as he is a players manager its also pretty clear that you do what Bobby asks you to do or you are headed for the doghouse. Just thinking out loud.

  61. Now, now. KK stunk it up on the field and refused an assignment. Hard to say that was Bobby’s attutude problem. Folks can disagree whether it would have been more civil just to release him, but KK’s performance and reaction to the situation was the problem.

  62. KK’s performance

    Was not poor by any reasonable measure. Being benched and watching Chavez get run out there on the other hand…

  63. Except he didn’t. He didn’t pitch any worse than Lowe, and he wasn’t pitching any worse than your average #5 starter.

    The fact that Bobby didn’t send him out there ONCE in over a month and used Chavez over KK is clear evidence that Bobby/Wren/Someone was holding some kind of vendetta against KK.

    You can be a Bobby Cox apologist all day, but there’s really no way to justify this KK situation.

  64. So I guess the new plan is to hope that KK is somewhat adequate at Gwinnett so that someone will be desperate enough to take him and some of his salary of the Braves’ hands? And that plan hinged on mothballing him for a month so you could convince him that he needed the time in Gwinnett to build arm strength? It could work. It would be great if they could figure out something so he’s not just a $7 million paperweight next season.

  65. I saw two of his last three or four starts in June and the inning of relief he pitched against Milwaukee his last appearance. He was getting hit hard and all over the place. I have no idea why, but he certainly stunk it up.

    Also, I’m not saying Chavez was a better choice, but by that time KK was being benched because of his poor performance and refusing the assignment.

  66. Robert at 131,

    I think the problem with KK is that, upon Medlen’s emergence in Jurrjens absence, there hasn’t really been a plan (except maybe a misjointed plan).

  67. also, the “Plan” now, because of Medlen’s injury, may be to bring KK up in 3 weeks and put Minor in the pen (innings limits, anyone?).

    Then, with 2 or 3 decent starts, Kawakami becomes very tradeable. but, with the injury to Medlen, do you really want to trade him?

  68. @133

    So you’re using the eyeball test? Without even watching all of his games? Okay.

    “Also, I’m not saying Chavez was a better choice, but by that time KK was being benched because of his poor performance and refusing the assignment.”

    Except his performance wasn’t that poor. In relation to Medlen? Yes. In relation to some of the bullpen pitchers used over him? No.

  69. I don’t think we are trading Kawakami during the season.

    I think both he and the team understand that Minor *is* going to reach his limit, one way or another, and Kawakami’s really the only other option. What happens if we trade Kawakami and Minor gets shut down? “Ladies and gentlemen, tonight’s starter for your Atlanta Braves…Brandon Beachy!!!!!”

  70. Counter intuitive to being a fan of the Braves, but part of me wants KK to go down and intentionally “suck it up” so that he has absolutely no trade value and the Braves have to keep him.

  71. @136 – Hey, perhaps you have no other responsibilities in life and thus choose to watch every Braves game, but most of us don’t, nor would I choose to do so. I did see the majority of his last 12-15 innings and there is no doubt about the poor results. Many others here commented on it at the time as well. The “non-eyeball” information shows that his hits allowed were up, strikeouts down, FB/GB ratio up. The eyeballs saw that these were not dribblers, accidents, non-errors qua errors by his fielders, etc. The silly “eyeball” comment just shows that you have no appreciation for the information that isn’t reduced to a box score.

  72. Really, Kawakami could’ve refused this assignment to AAA as well. It’s in his contract. He didn’t have to say yes this time either. He’s doing it because he knows the Braves are going to have to call him up to pitch in a few weeks. They don’t have a choice, unless they want to risk destroying Minor’s career.

  73. Tonight’s lineup: Infante – 4 Heyward – 9 Chipper – 5 Diaz – 7 McCann – 2 Glaus – 3 Gonzalez – 6 Ankiel – 8 Hanson – 1

  74. Not to change the subject, but it is just stupidly hot again today, and has been for the last 3 weeks. And it’s just the first weekend in August. Anyone think this will have an effect on the race, positive or negative?

  75. Not sure about the heat affecting the race, but it sure has affected attendance here in DC anyway. I personally have missed the last 3-4 games I had tickets to just because I couldn’t stand the idea of sweltering for three hours.

  76. By game score metric:
    Kawakami’s three worst starts:
    6/20 vs. KC – 2.0 IP, 6 H, 5 R, 4 ER, 0 BB, 1 SO, 13 BF, 27 GSc
    4/17 vs. COL – 5.0 IP, 8 H, 4 R, 4 ER. 2 BB, 2 SO, 24 BF, 35 GSc
    4/28 vs. STL – 4.1 IP, 5 H, 5 R, 4 ER, 4 BB, 4 SO, 22 BF, 35 Gsc

    Hanson’s three worst starts:
    6/22 vs. CHW – 3.2 IP, 13 H, 9 R, 9 ER, 1 BB, 0 SO, 1 HR, 25 BF, GSc -2
    5/20 vs. CIN – 1.2 IP, 8 H, 8 R, 8 ER, 2 BB, 2 SO, 1 HR, 16 BF, GSc 7
    6/27 vs. DET – 3.2 IP, 8 H, 6 R, 5 ER, 2 BB, 4 SO, 19 BF, GSc 25

    Clearly it’s not all about performance. Kawakami’s three worst starts were nowhere near as bad as Tommy Hanson’s three worst. Granted, Hanson is an ilk of pitcher Kawkami could only dream of being, but still, the numbers don’t lie. There’s something a lot deeper going on here with the Braves and their treatment of Kawakami.

  77. Kawakami 2009: 0.9 HR/9, 3.3 BB/9, 6.0 K/9
    Kawakami 2010: 1.0 HR/9, 3.0 BB/9, 6.2 K/9

    Looks like pretty much the same guy to me, and we had no problems with him last year.

  78. I’m the one who only cares about the box score when you’re the one ignoring the stats that show KK wasn’t any worse than what he was intended to be – a #5 starter/middle relief pitcher – just to try and defend Bobby?

    There was no reason to shove KK in the pen and then use worse pitchers over him. The organization was upset because he wouldn’t accept an assignment (when he didn’t need one)and they took it out on him by refusing to pitch him.

    There is no way to spin this to make KK the bad guy, unless you’re just delusional (or work for Fox News).

  79. Well it seemed to give the Braves an advantage last night. The heat definitely got to Lincecum, especially since he had to run the bases, too. He had trouble getting on top of his breaking pitches and consequently hung a slider to Gonzalez.

    So maybe the heat can be our 10th man.

  80. #105
    And I know academic jazz snobs (Berklee types) who liked it, with some reservations. But if they didn’t have some issues, of course, they wouldn’t be jazz snobs.

    As a non-jazz snob, I gotta say I’m kinda glad he gave short shrift to the more modern stuff. But it’s true, he did.

    Also, the Burns “Jazz” doc certainly wasn’t made for jazz snobs. It was made for everyone else & I found the pre-1900 material fascinating.

    For me, if I see a doc or a movie about an artist or read a review of a musical performance or recording and it makes me seek that material, it’s succeeded. (When I write for my mag, the joy of discovery & experience is what I try to convey to the readers.)

    In many ways, the Burns doc did that for me. It made me re-discover Louis Armstrong & develop more of a taste of Duke Ellington.

    Oh and yes, yes, yes, Burns’ WW2 doc, “The War” is terrific.

  81. @ 144 —

    Just goes to show that random comparisons like that can reveal silly results. Game scores for Roy Halladay’s three worst starts:

    May 23 v. BOS L 8-3, 5.2 IP, 8 hits, 6 ER, HR, 1 K, 28 BF, 26 GSc

    Jul 18 v. CHC L 11-6, 6.0 IP, 7 hits, 6 ER, 2 HR, 3 K, 26 BF, 39 GSc

    Apr. 26 v. SF L 5-1, 7.0 IP, 10 hits, 5 ER, HR, 5 K, 30 BF, 42 GSc

    Your point about pitchers of different ilks being treated differently is right on. Nobody is sending Halladay to the bench or to AAA any time soon.

  82. Well… I’m having to have somebody stop by the stadium to get the cheaper tickets (wife said to save the $$ and get the cheap ones from the stadium vs the nicer seats on discount, but not quite as cheap, from stubhub)… Bummed there isn’t a callable “box office” unless you’re getting one of the deals from TV or a group rate (I tried calling them and phone-system hell kept sending me to Ticketmaster).

    That said, I’m pretty excited about finally getting to a game this season. I also think I’ll be hunting for single tickets on stubhub and going to a game or two alone (maybe that Sept 15th business special).

  83. @144 I don’t think the numbers support the handling of KK either, but I don’t see that a comparison of the three worst starts for various pitchers is particularly useful. There is a 10 point difference in their median start, for instance. Hanson is way better overall with a few very bad outings dragging him down, while KK was consistently mediocre.

    As I said though, I find the treatment of KK perplexing given his performance. I understood moving him to the pen, but I don’t get why they never used him, especially given how much the White Flag was trotted out there. It’s hard not to feel for the guy when reading his interview. I realize a lot of it is the culture he comes from, but the “I will be ready for whatever role they ask of me” is as much class as you could possibly ask for given his treatment.

    What I really don’t understand is the complete absence of communication between team management and KK. I don’t understand how you have an environment where a player can be so kept in the dark as to what is expected of them, and how anyone imagines that’s a good way to run an organization.

  84. No one is a bad guy here. Boss wants employee to do something that boss perceives is for the overall good of the company. Employee does not want to do it and resists, hoping for change of heart. Boss uses available leverage to get employee to do as requested. When it becomes clear that resistance is futile and there is no better alternative, employee finally accepts fate. The same scenario is played out on a daily basis throughout the business world, just not so publicly.

    If employee had done as boss asked initially, even though it may have been his right to refuse, employee would in all likelihood be back in his customary assignment right now. Employee played his hand and lost. That’s how it goes sometimes.

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