Braves 10, Reds 9

Cincinnati Reds vs. Atlanta Braves – Box Score – May 20, 2010 – ESPN.

There are comebacks. And then there’s this. The last comeback like this one was Great Britain in World War II.

Tommy Hanson had never really had a poor start before today, but when he did, wow, it was a doozy. After pitching around two first-inning baserunners, he allowed a leadoff single in the second. He came back and got the next two, and with the pitcher due up, was seemingly going to get out of it. He never got another out. The pitcher singled, and Hanson walked the next batter on five pitches — perhaps looking to get Miguel Cairo, who was hitting second and came into the game hitting .138. (The Reds’ batting order seems organized as a plot to keep Joey Votto from driving in as many runs as possible.)

Cairo singled, scoring a run and leaving the bases loaded. And then Votto picked up four RBI on one swing of the bat. Hanson still couldn’t get out of the inning, going single, walk, RBI single, double to make it 8-0 when Bobby finally stopped the bleeding and brought in Jesse “White Flag” Chavez, because the game was over, right?

You couldn’t have really blamed the Braves for not showing up at the plate after that. They didn’t quit. They scored three runs in the middle innings, though all came on errors on Heyward groundouts. They actually had a sliver of hope, cutting the lead to 9-3 in the fifth with two on, none out, and Chipper and McCann coming up, but Chipper struck out and McCann grounded into a double play. Surely they would give up now… and for the next three innings it seemed like they had.

It was only in the ninth that they got an actual hit with runners on, a bases-loaded single by McLouth that cut the lead to 9-5. Then a walk to Ross, and another error on a Prado grounder that scored a run and brought Heyward to the plate as the winning run. The Reds brought in Arthur Rhodes, who is literally old enough to be Heyward’s father, and Rhodes got a strikeout (after Heyward just missed hitting a 3-1 pitch for a grand slam that might have actually caused the entire city of Atlanta to spontaneously combust) for the first out of the inning. And Chipper and McCann were out of the game already, because hey, it was 9-3, and Kimbrel was in Chipper’s spot. Brooks Conrad pinch-hit, and the Reds brought in their closer, Francisco Cordero.

Cordero got it to 1-2, then Conrad took ball two. He fought off the next pitch, then he hit an opposite-field grand slam homer to win the game. All this in a game in which the Braves’ ace pitcher was knocked out in the second inning and saw his ERA skyrocket from 2.88 to 4.18 and the three top hitters who carried them last night, Heyward, Jones, and McCann, were a collective 0-12.

A lot of credit has to go to the bullpen, which allowed only one run (a solo shot off of Chavez) in 7 1/3 innings of work. Chavez allowed only one other hit in 3 1/3. Venters pitched three shutout innings, allowing three hits and two walks. Kimbrel picked up the win, his first, with a shutout ninth.

129 thoughts on “Braves 10, Reds 9”

  1. Heyward was all over that 3-1 pitch. You’re right–Atlanta would have exploded. Way to go, Brooks Conrad!

  2. Apparently this is the first walk-off GS with a 3-run deficit since Adam Dunn in 2006, and only the fourth since the turn of the millennium (Brian Giles 2001, Jason Giambi 2002). It’s only slightly more rare than perfect games or unassisted triple plays.

    It’s never happened in Atlanta before, though Del Crandall did it for the Milwaukee Braves in 1955.

    http://www.baseball-almanac.com/feats/walk_off_grand_slams.shtml

  3. This is the type of game that causes outsized results for all teams involved.

    We could see the Reds drop 7-8 in a row after this while the Braves go off on something like a 20-4 streak.

    Or not. But it sure beats the feeling from last year when the Phillies did something similiar to us.

  4. I got goosebumps just reading about it. I had a project to work on and when the score was 8-0, I gave up hope. This team, flawed as it may be at times, knows how to fight. Tremendous win.

  5. There’s a part of me that is annoyed and frustrated that it barely cleared the fence. I wanted a no-doubt shot fifteen rows up. Typical baseball fan.

  6. my dad, who is just as big of a braves fan as i am, called me to tell me about it and i didnt believe him.

    how close was heyward’s foul ball?

  7. Heyward didn’t hit the ball foul. Rhodes threw him a Zambrano pitch and Heyward was all over it. We’re surmising that had he not fouled it straight back, the ball would have traveled quite a distance.

  8. As is always the case, a Braves game doesn’t really count until it’s recapped at Braves Journal. Great recap, Mac. What an amazing game.

  9. Watching the slam on my phone since it’s not on the main site yet. I’m really surprised how calm Chip was. I guess we’re getting used to these walk-offs.

  10. Wow…what a great afternoon to work from home. And I thought our chances went down the drain when Heyward went down to Arthur Rhodes.

    Surely, no-batting-gloves Brooks Conrad wouldn’t be able to handle Cordero’s heat when he got 2 strikes on him.

    Shocked still.

    It’s all for naught if the Braves go up to Pittsburgh and lay a big fat egg. Need a big quality start from whoever goes tomorrow.

  11. And I was upset that our bullpen gave up 4 runs over 2 innings yesterday. Can’t imagine being a Reds fan today.

  12. well since I wasnt here………..BBBBRRROOOOKKKKSSSSIIIIEEEE!!!!!

    seriously, turned on XM just in time to here this….Braves have 6 walk off wins this year. Here’s the pitch, deep fly ball to LF, Nix at the wall, GRAND SLAM. Walk off GRAND SLAM by Brooks Conrad!! Braves players are all gathered at home plate….GRAND SLAM, GRAND SLAM

    or something like that, just about had a wreck there

  13. I just heard the score on the radio and my head hit the roof! When I left my house to get my daughter the game was all but over.
    WOW!

    Putting a good run together, lets keep it going.

  14. Just checking in to register my approval of the day’s proceedings.

  15. The last time we had an awesome 9th-inning comeback, we lost nine straight games immediately afterward!

  16. I was running around town listening to the game on the radio for the last few innings. Conrad hit the grand slam just as I was receiving my order from the woman at Sonic. I made her high five me.

  17. Whatever happens this season, this is already the most dramatic Braves season that I can remember. Terrible lows, dizzying highs…You couldn’t write this stuff.The stalwarts falter, the role players come up huge; and of course, the Kid, the beautiful Kid. Damn, is this fun.

  18. JC, I remember that game very well. When Justice hit that HR against Dibble, I went crazy.

    It’s amazing we are sitting at a game over .500 after all these craps.

  19. I remember that Justice HR, too.

    And the very next day, we threw a 6-spot on them in top of the first inning. Talk about momentum.

    Let’s blast the Bucs & get something really rolling.

  20. I recall a 6-0 comeback vs the Cards back in the early 90s when Gant hit a linedrive homer over the LF fence.

    Any others remember that one?

  21. Missed nothing, it hit his glove, he just didn’t catch. He sort of pushed it over the wall. The Reds horrible defense made it all possible. Just in the ninth, the balls hit by Esco, Prado, and Conrad could have – and probably should have – been outs.

  22. probably the most amazing game i have seen… wow! came home and it was 3-9 in te bottom of the 9th!!

  23. Man I woke up late and saw the score was 8-3 in the 7th so I turned it off. A little while later I get an at bat alert that Conrad hit a game winning grand slam. I’ve never been so amazed to see that we won a ballgame.

    On another note, I think the best thing about twitter is all the fake baseball player/personnel accounts. Cyborg Tommy Hanson is probably my favorite.

  24. I saw the first couple of innings at work today and thought to myself: “That’s sure not what I expected.”

    Got home and happened to see the score — certainly not expected!

    Going to go watch it on mlbtv now…

  25. I am at nats – mets in dc….jeffy just misplayed a flyball like mclouth did the other night, but he missed it by about 10more feet, and pudge got a “triple.”

  26. Speaking of great Braves comebacks, I remember a game about ’86 or ’87 where the Braves hit the Pirates for 5 or 6 in the bottom of the ninth, I believe the big hit was provided by Alex Trevino.

  27. Actually I give Melky credit for the win. When he got his pinch hit single I said if he can get a hit we are destined to win (see#84 from last thread). Haven’t we won every game in which he’s gotten a pinch hit? It must be his veteran presence on the club!

  28. I left Statesboro at 4 PM and got on 16, finally found a radio station on the Braves network in that desolate section of Georgia. Around 4:30 I heard Jim Powell recapping the events of the last inning, and couldn’t believe what I was hearing.

    The team showed a lot of heart with that one. Great win, and one for all time. Let’s keep it going in Pittsburgh.

  29. I missed the entire damn thing because of class. I already hate this semester.

  30. And unless the Nats can pull off an even greater comeback than our own today, we’ll be all alone in 3rd.

  31. I flipped back after skipping innings bottom 2 through top 9, and Conrad was up with the count 1-1. I said something along the lines of, “Conrad? Really?”. Really.

  32. I think Conrad has shown that he deserved the spot over Joe Thurston. He actually showed it last year with a big homer or two.

    When you look at his minor league stats, you say ‘Well the pop is nice, but there’s not enough here to stick in the big leagues.’

    But as a bench player, he’s perfect. He’s your second infielder off the bench, behind Infante, and he’s (well, WAS) your second ‘Swing for the fences’ pinch hitter behind Hinske. He’s like an Earl Weaver player for the era of bloated bullpens. Two one-dimensional players in one!

    Now that Hinske is a starter, I don’t actually like our bench much. I don’t think, today not withstanding, that Conrad should be our first power option off the bench. With Diaz out, Melky becomes our ‘go get on and start a rally’ pinch hitter, instead of our defensive outfield replacement. He hasn’t shown he’s capable of that. Further, I think Melky makes Clevlen redundant (as if Melky wasn’t redundant to begin with.) I’d like to see Mitch Jones get a chance to show he CAN’T be Matt Stairs, and then go get a Matt Stairs type.

    Maybe we ride Hinske as a starter only until he becomes human again, and then Schafer gets a shot, either in left, or by moving McLouth to left. Or if McLouth doesn’t come around truly, perhaps he goes to the bench..

    God, wouldn’t McLouth make a perfect fourth outfielder, if you had a starting three good enough to keep him on the bench?

  33. This is what today reminded me of

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ATL/ATL199405100.shtml

    I remember listening to that one on a radio in my bedroom because we lived in the country and did not have cable or satelite. It was an incredible game.

    Edit: The thing I remember most about that game was Mike Stanton getting two hits, including the game winner on a bunt that was so bad it went perfectly over the head of the 3b and Deion scored from 3rd.

  34. I recorded the game and was this close to deleting it at 8-0. Glad I did not.

  35. Can we talk history here? Britain would never have fallen to the Nazis because they would have never made it across the channel. The Brits, for all their bluster, simply bunkered down on their island while the Germans and Soviets slugged it out on the Eastern front until the US entered hostilities to deliver the coup de grace. The French are given an enormous amount of grief for their surrender but the British forces didn’t exactly cover themselves in glory at that phase of the war either.

  36. @48 Forget Pratt, I was somewhat amazed that Deion was still playing in ’94. I looked him up on Baseball Reference, he played thru ’95, skipped a year had a really good year for the Reds in ’97 (56 steals), then hung up his baseball cleats, and then came back and played 32 games for Cincy in 2001. Man, where was I, and why don’t I remember that? Well, maybe it’s because I only pay attention to the Braves.

  37. Schafer now hitting .174 in Gwinnett, btw Matt Young is back in the infield playing 2b.

    Resop had another good start 6IP 4H 2ER 2BB 6K
    Dunn 1IP 0H 1K lowered ERA to 0.47

  38. Great baseball day for me. First, the Braves’ epic rise from the ashes; now, Vanderbilt wins a close one and just needs to beat Arkansas again tomorrow or Saturday to secure hosting a Regional.

  39. According to the AJC recap, Hanson was dizzy and had been feeling ill for the last couple of days

    That would explain why he went along with that 0-2 slider to Cairo. Memo to BMac: If Miguel Cairo could turn around a 95 mph fastball he wouldn’t be on a different team every year.

    I watched the game until Chavez showed up and then periodically checked the box score on Yahoo the rest of the way. But somehow I glanced at it towards the end and became convinced the game had ended 9-6, so I never checked back. So when I clicked over here to read the recap, I was a little confused…and then more than a little pissed that I missed it live.

    And really if you’ve got mlb.tv you owe it to yourself to listen to the ninth on the Reds TV feed just to hear Brennaman suffer. That guy is such a blowhard.

  40. It’s true, the Reds dropped the ball all over the field today. Thank goodness.

    And I’ve never thought of The Blitz—a period of sustained Nazi aerial bombing that resulted in over 50,000 civilian deaths—as a case of the Brits being “simply bunkered down,” but I’ll try to process that.

  41. The Blitz was the thing that won the war on the Western Front (obviously history has shown the Russians basically absorbed huge losses to defeat about 80% of the Nazi army). Before The Blitz, the German campaign of bombing the RAF airfields was winning the war. Churchill then bombed German cities to try to bait Hitler into retaliating, which he did, and relied upon the character of the British public to come through it. That bought time for the RAF to rebuild.

  42. I thought that Mac was bull shitting at first. I had been keeping up via Braves.com and thought the game had ended 9 to 3.

    #60 Sort of. You are correct had the Germans continued their campaign against the RAF’s airfields they could have opened Britain to invasion. The change in tactics to night area bombing had a lot to do with the fact that the RAF was making the Lufwaffe pay dearly for their daylight raids.

    I dunno #51. The Anglo-French forces did lose the land war in the early stages of WW2 but I’d have to say the British people, the RAF and the Royal Navy were doing a pretty good job of distinguishing themselves against terrific odds.

  43. So glad I tipped everyone to how great the Reds were playing defense and how the Hanson matchup would be a pitching duel.
    Heard the game on Reds radio. It’s pretty hard to stun a HOF like Marty Brenneman, but they did it yesterday.

  44. The Battle of Britain was won by the RAF in large part due to radar that the British had developed. The Battle of Britain made it impossible for Hitler to invade England because it denied him air superiority. As Johnny said, it wasn’t just revenge that caused the Germans to switch away from the airfields; the RAF (again with a large assist from radar) were pounding the hell out of the Luftwaffre during the day. The English did not cover themselves in glory during large parts of the war, but I think you have to credit them with more than simply hunkering down and letting the Russians win the war. After all, Russia wasn’t even in the war at the time of the Battle of Britain. If Britain had been knocked out, Hitler would not have had to fight a two-front war after invading Russia and it certainly would have been much more difficult, if not impossible, for the US to bring its weight fully to bear in Europe. Russia might have been able to defeat the Germans themselves, but the consequences for Europe would have been significant.

    Anyway, are the Braves good or are they lucky? Last-at-bat wins are great from time-to-time, but I would rather see good, solid 6-2 wins. They went 5-2 on the homestand but could easily have gone 1-6. They are going to need to play better and more consistently. I do think, however, the Braves’ patience and ability to work the count is starting to pay dividends offensively.

  45. How great has Glaus been this month?! WHat a bargain as well… who would have thought that after the first month.

  46. The Blitz was actually the overrunning of Holland, Belgium and France to ‘win’ in the western part of Europe.

  47. Maine’s a little silly if he thinks you can go out there tossing a little over 80 mph and not raise a few eyebrows, especially when you’ve got a history of arm problems. Five pitches might be a little quick, but not out of line, in my opinion.

  48. @60

    It was actually a mistake when a German town was bombed by the British, not a ploy by Churchill although that would have been pretty ingenious. Hitler’s reaction was predictable since he always cared more about symbolism and breaking his opponents morale more than practical things like bombing radar stations. You’re right though that the change strategy of the Germans to carpet bombing southern England was what won the Battle of Britain.

    @51

    Don’t forget that throughout ’42 and ’43 the British were holding out in North Africa which was actually one of the most important aspects of the war although neither side really knew it. Rommell begged and pleaded for only one additional division and if he’d gotten it then the world could be a different place right now because the Germans could have rolled through Egypt and captured the Saudi oil fields. If they’d done this the campaign in Russia would have gone very differently as they wouldn’t have to worry about fuel shortages.

  49. @76,

    By ’43 (actually late ’42), the Americans were in North Africa as well so the Brits weren’t alone. But they certainly were in 1941 and most of 1942.

    Actually, Hitler’s attitude toward city bombing was pretty conventional wisdom. During the 20s and 30s, strategic bombing advocates basically thought they could win the war by bombing cities and essentially breaking the will of the populace. It was basically assumed that there were no defenses to strategic bombing. At least initially, the British shared this view and, in fact, this was the basis of “Bomber” Harris’ bombing campaign (that and revenge) against German cities. And, in fact, the US firebombed much of Japan under this same theory. The strategy turned out to be wrong (at least until the atomic bomb)but it wasn’t obvious at the time.

    I wonder what Bobby Cox’s take on this would be.

  50. Just a thought: the last game that I thought would cause the Braves to “make a run” was the unbelievable late-game HR surge vs the Phils a while back. I don’t have to remind anyone what the Braves did in the week and a half or so that followed that.

    Is it just me or is this Pirates series one hell of a litmus test to see where the Braves really are as a team?

    I hate to be Debbie Downer, but I can certainly see the Braves losing this series.

  51. I don’t have to remind anyone what the Braves did in the week and a half or so that followed that.

    No, you don’t … because I already did @23!

  52. You know, thinking about it, and reading articles saying that there’s zero interest in Burrell in baseball, he might take the opportunity to be a 5th OF/3rd 1B for a month (until Diaz comes back) in hopes of showing enough to get steady work. I think he’s a step up from Clevlen, and he could stick around if another injury happens to an OF or Glaus.

    I think we should bring him on. I mean, it’s the minimum, and he’s a step up from a current player.

  53. Burrell is done, at least Clevlen can play all 3 OF positions

    #78 – the Pirates series isnt that big of a deal unless we get swept or sweep there. They’ve actually been good at home this season. Gotta keep McCutchen in check

  54. 82—I agree with csg. We need Clevlen’s (or somebody’s) speed and defense off the bench more than we need a chance on someone like Burrell.

  55. Pat Burrell

    2006 – -15.8 uzr/150 in LF
    2007 – -29.5
    2008 – -12.2

    2009 vs LH – .202/.336/.252
    2010 vs LH – .053/.174/.053

  56. RE #84 Why don’t we just listen to Joe and Chip talk about changes in night batting averages on Wednesdays. The season is early, we’re dealing with small samples (not knocking you csg, just the article, which I appreciate your pointing to).

  57. @83, how important is it that he play those positions? With Melky bench riding and able to play all three, we already have a set of starters and a backup. Against the last lefty, Melky, not Clevlen, started.

    Clevlen hardly ever plays. If we’re having someone who hardly ever plays, I’d rather take a shot on someone who has, in the past, hit well. Also, the Braves will almost certainly be playing away interleague games before Diaz returns unless he comes back early.

  58. Just think, last year in that situation we would have had Greg Norton coming to the plate.

  59. 91—Burrell is done. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t believe that. And you know, if we were to sign him, that Bobby would give him tons of ABs just because of his history. I’d rather have someone who never plays than someone who plays a lot and sucks.

  60. #90 – I believe that Nate has made some changes and is starting to swing the bat quite well, IMO. He has had a problem taking strikes, but that also seems to be a team philosophy. Most guys are working the counts pretty well and Im sure Nate hasnt been on the good side of some boarderline calls. Last I checked, chipper is struggling more than anyone else with 2 strikes. But you’re right, too small of a sample size here

  61. @93, good point. We definitely want to minimize the plate appearances from that roster spot until Diaz comes back. I guess if Bobby isn’t playing Clevlen much now, it would be a risk to bring on someone he might play enough to hurt the team.

  62. A rec for all you history buffs: Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History podcasts. Last year he did a 4-part series on the Russian front called “Ghosts of the Ostfront” that I found riveting. He doesn’t break much new ground, but he’s excellent at describing the on-the-ground logistics and general deprivations of war. His series on the Punic Wars is also excellent:

    http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/hh

    If anyone else knows of some good history podcasts, please post about them — I’m running out of material. Thanks!

  63. now if just Washington would realize that they are probably not a playoff team, Willingham sure would be a nice addition

  64. So the Braves play the Pirates this weekend while the rest of the NL East plays the Yankees (Mets), Red Sox (Phillies), White Sox (Marlins), and Orioles (Natspos). It’s a good opportunity to make up some ground to say the least.

  65. Fredi Gonzalez or Joe Maddon?

    Frank Wren is the Neville Chamberlain of MLB. “I bring you Melk in our time.”

  66. An additional component to the Battle of Britain.

    Management Science. That’s right. What they call Industrial Management at Georgia Tech.

    The British developed algorithms that told them how many planes of theirs of what type would produce a sufficient enough advantage to shoot down German planes (it was something like 1.5 fighters to 1). Then, when the raids started, they sent that minimum number to all of the sectors in order of priority (radar installations 1, airfields 2, etc.)that they could cover with what planes they had.

    Then, they left the rest of the country lacking fighter cover.

    Gradually, this effort really knocked down German fighter numbers at a far greater rate than RAF destroyed.

    Also, the Engima machine stolen by the Poles and given to the British was helping a lot in the early part of the war.

  67. Speaking of nicknames, I’ve decided to refer to Conrad from now on as “Shawshank” as in “Brooks was here.”

  68. @77 – The British turned to area night bombing for a more practical reason. They were getting slaughtered trying to bomb during the day. Their planes were lightly armed and without fighter escort. They began only hitting military and industrial targets. You’re correct though, Bomber Harris was convinced that the RAF alone could flatten German cities with 1000 plane raids at night and force them to capitulate.

    In the PTO the USAAF started their campaign conducting it much like they had in the ETO with precision daylight bombing of Japanese industrial and military targets. But Japanese industry wasn’t as concentrated and as easily destroyed from the air. LeMay adjusted tactics, sent B-29s in at medium altitudes and used incendiary bombs to burn Japanese cities to the ground.

  69. Here’s the NY Times review of “The Last Hero,” the new 600-page Hank Aaron bio.

    http://tinyurl.com/2f87umk

    #77/#103,
    I’ll assume you’ve seen it, but Errol Morris’ outstanding documentary about Robert McNamara (“The Fog of War”) has a pretty frank look at the carpet bombing of Japan. McNamara served under LeMay & his perspective is about as sobering as you can imagine.

    #96
    Thanks for that, Sam. Nothing like commuting with a good podcast.

  70. Johnny,

    You are right about the British getting slaughtered in daytime raids. The US was, too, until the development of long-range fighters to escort the bombers. There were a number of strategic bombing enthusiasts, including Hap Arnold in the US, who thought, if they just unleashed the bombers, they could win the war without a ground invasion. But experience in that war and in subsequent wars showed that bombing could actually have the opposite effect, ie, actually strengthen the will of the enemy to resist and, given the technology of the time, it really wasn’t possible to use precision bombing to knock out the war-making potential of Germany although, as the war went on, the US was able to eliminate much of Germany’s synthetic fuel production.

  71. I posted this yesterday after the Votto GS…

    “.500 for a day at least….this is what happens when you try to nit pick the corners against the bottom of the order, esp against the pitcher”

    well at least I wasnt wrong, just was thinking the wrong side of .500

  72. Haven’t seen it ububba, but thanks for the reference. I have read about the fire bombing of Japan and it’s not a pretty picture and, IMO, was as bad or worse than the atomic bombing. LeMay was a pretty nasty guy, although someone you were glad was on your side in a war like that.

  73. McNamara says as much in the documentary.

    In terms of sheer casualty numbers, the firebombing campaign was twice as worse than the 2 A-bombs combined. And we’re talking a half-million compared to a quarter-million.

    And on a somewhat lighter note…

    If you’ve ever seen Kubrick’s classic dark comedy, “Dr. Strangelove,” the Sterling Hayden character—Ripper, the USAF general who intentionally starts the nuclear war—is based on Curtis LeMay.

  74. @107 – “War is a dirty business and entails the use of degrading means, whoever wages it.–A. J. Muste, Sept. 1928

    The Jeff Pearlman piece today (I’ll not link to it, as he still sucks) provides fresh evidence that the worst thing John Rocker did was help this guy get credibility as a “writer”. I can’t conceive of why someone who clearly hates both the sport and its players writes about it for a living.

  75. Wonder how many informed perspectives on British involvement in WWII one would find on MetsBlog.

  76. Stu,

    Based on what I’ve read, about the same number as intelligent at-bats by Jeff Francouer.

  77. And so Godwinization has come to Braves Journal.

    (OK, not quite – I don’t think anyone has called anyone else a nazi yet, but it is veering close to the cliff. I will provide a distraction so that AAR or Peter can steer us back to an intelligent baseball conversation.)

    Anyway – How ’bout that Melky Cabrera, what a clutch pinch hitter! He got a hit yesterday, got the GW Error Wednesday, and mercifully ended the D’backs blowout Sunday with the Pinch GIDP!

  78. As it’s Subway Series weekend, I was listening to WFAN for awhile this morning, but I had to stop. I literally couldn’t listen anymore to the whining Met fans. I wish they had been discussing the aerial campaigns of WW2.

    BTW, there’s an awesome Sterling Hayden movie called “The Killing.” It’s on TCM quite often. (Give it a DVR search.) Hayden plays a bad-ass crook going for a complicated big score.

    It’s a ’50s noir thing, directed by Kubrick, but the screenplay is done by Kubrick & Jim Thompson, so it has that grittiness that most films didn’t have back then.

    Charles,
    If anything, I always try to discuss the inhumanity & the cost of war.

  79. Loved Dr. Strangelove. Slim Pickens character is my favorite.

    Thanks for the tip ububba, I intend on finding that documentary.

  80. Charles,

    Wait a minute, you are way out of line. I never considered–and I don’t think anyone else here-considers it a sporting event. It’s a historical event and subject to discussion. WW II was a tragedy beyond words but that doesn’t mean you can’t discuss it as a topic of conversation. I don’t think there is anyone discussing this that has treated the war as a “sporting event.”

    I have a substantial collection of books about Hitler and the Third Reich. I’m also Jewish. Do you think I consider Hitler just an interesting guy?

  81. @93

    well said…no reason to give Barney Cox a bullet like Burrell. I’ve also heard Pat the Bat is quite the diva and a clubhouse turd. The Braves seem to have a nice team chemistry…so no reason to upset that either. leave the position in the hands of a hungry rookie who can at least run and play defense. At this point I think Burrell has no tools whatsoever.

  82. I second ububba on “The Fog of War”!

    Also thanks for the link on the review!

  83. Charles, how does calling the subject “a dirty business [that] entails the use of degrading means” constitute a comparison to a sporting event, exactly?

    @112 – And in fairness, I think all the Mets smarties hang out at Amazin’ Avenue, or BBTF. You wouldn’t want Braves fandom measured by the AJC comments section, would you?

  84. I just find it a bit off-putting to stumble on a Braves blog into a coldly discussed conversation about the merits and effectiveness of different bombing techniques. I’m sure there are plenty of sites where war nerds congregate to compare casualty statistics, I just don’t think it’s necessary on a baseball blog. It strikes me as very juvenile and American for any conversation to be a few comments away from a full-on World War 2 discussion. If you look at the flow and rhythm of the comments juxtaposed with comments on baseball they do look a bit insensitive.

  85. And I am once again reminded why I lurk here. Excellent WWII conversation, folks.

    While it is true that the firebombing of Tokyo killed more people than the atomic bombings, that was in part because Tokyo was a much larger city. What makes the atom bomb much worse is two-fold. First, the immediacy of the bomb eliminates the class distinctions that war had always upheld. Conventional bombings take time, and if you were wealthy enough, you could hightail it to the country, or at least get your kids out of town. But the atom bomb falls on everyone. Second, the radiation made the atom bomb more like the poison gas of WWI (unfair).

    And Charles, if you don’t enjoy discussing military history, then don’t. The Internet is a very big place.

  86. I’ll third on Fog of War. Errol Morris has long been one of my favorite filmmakers. His out-of-print Stephen Hawking movie, “A Brief History of Time,” is worth tracking down, but my all-time fave is “Fast, Cheap, and Out of Control.” He’s just incredibly good.

  87. It strikes me as very juvenile and American for any conversation to be a few comments away from a full-on World War 2 discussion.

    Possibly the most ludicrous comment ever registered here. And I’ve seen nymets, wun, Gadfly, Jon K, myself, and others.

    122—Fair enough. :)

  88. The blog often veers off into non-baseball stuff. I guess we could talk about other historical events. Cincy’s bullpen yesterday was the biggest collapse since the stock market in 1929.

    @124,

    Good points about the atomic bomb that I had not throught of, but my point was not so much that the A-bomb was “better” but that the firebombing was almost equally as horrific. LeMay himself said that if Japan had won the war, he would have been considered a war criminal.

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