Let’s just get drunk game thread: May 10, Braves at Brewers

So we’ve got a team that is named after the production of alcoholic beverages versus a team that plays like everyone on it has consumed vast quantities of alcoholic beverages. I personally don’t drink, but this crew is making me think about starting.

188 thoughts on “Let’s just get drunk game thread: May 10, Braves at Brewers”

  1. On a slightly optimistic note, after the Brewers series, things gets a little easier schedule wise. 7 at home with AZ, NYM, and CIN followed by 6 on the road at PIT and FLA before we come back home for 3 more with PIT. Real chance to get back to .500 by the end of the month and that should be the goal.

  2. Tonight’s lineup: Infante, 6; Prado, 4; Chipper, 5; Glaus, 3; McCann, 2; Cabrera, 9; Diaz, 7; McLouth, 8; Hanson, 1

    No Heyward yet.

  3. Dusty while that should be the case, teams like Pit, Fla, NY, and Cincy all feel like they should be able to take care of us. They Braves are the worst team out of the ones you mentioned. Hard to make up ground when no matter who you are playing is better than you are.

    DOB just posted this – SP in games Chipper has missed

    Lincecum
    Hamels
    Wainright
    Sanchez
    Wellemeyer

    So essentially, Chipper makes our offense even weaker against the better SP’s. At least he started against Halladay and was apart of the no no Jiminez. The powerless Chipper may need to move to leadoff, he can draw walks still

  4. 4

    As bad as things seem right now, ATL has got to be considered the best of those 4 teams listed especially the Pirates but better than NYM and CIN and at least equal to Fla. To say that we are the worst of that group is a little over the top.

    That being said, it’s a good point you make that those teams have to feel like they maybe catching us at the right time, but I really think we will start to see things turn soon.

  5. Alex @ 2, works for me. Might even stop the stupid, annoying ash cloud here in Europe.

  6. The braves have the SP advantage tonight and tomorrow, and then Lowe gets burned against Guillardo (which since he would suck anyway, is a good thing). 2 or 3 is a reasonable goal.

    At least the braves strung a few hits together a couple of times in the last series. Now if they could just get a hit after some walks, they would be in business.

    I am ready for Bobby to dial up some 1991-1992 strategy and start squeezing with a guy on third and less than two out.

  7. I believe that Lowe and Kawakami are costing us $23 million this year. We could call up two AAA guys who could match their production and still have enough to sign Stilladouche.

    Good job, Wren.

  8. Nice stuff from Adam Foster at Project Prospect from his Top 25:

    1 Jason Heyward RF Injuries are the only thing that could keep him from ascending to stardom 20.8 ATL MLB 1 ↔

    20 Randall Delgado RHP The most impressive MiLB pitcher I saw in ’10 ST; flashes 3 plus pitches 20.3 ATL A+ NR ↑

    22 Freddie Freeman 1B Surprisingly promoted to AAA to open ’10 but he’s justifying the decision 20.7 ATL AAA 73 ↑

    Link: http://projectprospect.com/article/2010/05/10/top-25-prospect-list

  9. I believe that Lowe and Kawakami are costing us $23 million this year.

    Nope — less than $22 million. What a deal!

    15—I don’t think male virgins work.

  10. Guys, enough about the freaking Vazquez trade. Forget Melky; we had to unload a bunch of salary, and we got a top-notch prospect (Vizcaino) in return. I may be Javy’s biggest fan — remember, I’m the guy who was calling him an ace-caliber pitcher and predicting he’d start the All-Star Game for the NL before last season — but even I realize that Wren did a good job with that one. Yes, the Lowe contract is an abomination, but I still believe Wren’s done an otherwise very good job.

  11. I heard a joke on a radio talk show this morning that the Braves have been on the road so much this year that they might as well tear down Turner Field.

  12. And, I think very few people thought Lowe’s contract was going to go bad this soon. I was expecting a bad 4th year and a tail off in the 3rd.

  13. A good job? Really? I thought he did a good job structuring our 2nd half team last year (and who knows what kind of Coxcrap he had to overcome to get rid of Francoeur?) but sure didn’t consolidate any gains.

    Here’s the bottom line: swinging and missing on Lowe and Kawakami has killed us tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow. No matter how well Wren scrambles, it’s like being Kentucky or Vandy Football in the SEC East – we’re just so far behind to start with that there’s no hope of catching the big market teams like Phillie and (dammit) New York.

    When you’re entering a butt-kicking contest, it’s a bad first move to shoot your foot off.
    ———————–

    Loved the virgin response.

  14. @20

    Enough about the Vazquez trade?? I’d love to forget it, but when you are on one hell of a budget, and you have several aging stars and a retiring HOF manager and haven’t made the playoffs in several years…you kinda need to rake in a return with your biggest trade chip…and get a return that can contribute immediately.

    But we got Melky Cabrera!

    Despite Vazquez’s performance for the Yanks thus far, it was a pretty crappy move by Wren, IMO. I’m not sure which hurts more…to see Melky hit in the 3 hole in a key Sunday finale…or to see Kelly Johnson rake. Terrible judgement calls by Wren.

  15. 22 — Something like that happens when a player tries to rush back from an injury.

  16. It’s a little known fact that volcanoes that have had virgins before don’t particularly like them. They tend to prefer women or men (around 10% of all volcanoes are gay, which is also not very widely known) who know what they are doing.

  17. I was here the moment I heard of the Vazquez trade. Even called the Braves front office and left an angry, less-than-coherent email.

    And as soon as I heard the name “Melky”, I knew Cox would play him until they pry his cold, dead fingers from the lineup card.

  18. That 10% number is somewhat exagerrated. Bell Labs once did an exhaustive study and found that it’s closer to 3%. At least with volcanoes.

  19. While we’re talking about Melky…why didn’t Melky throw the damn ball yesterday from RF to have a play on Chase Utley tagging up?

  20. I think Wren did alright so far. It’s hardly his fault that 7/8th of the lineup can’t hit the water falling out of a boat at the moment.
    I blame TP and we should look to the Mariners how it’s done while it’s still early enough to turn things around. KK will be a reasonable 4th or 5th starter. He needs to keep the ball in the park, apart from that he didn’t pitch too poorly yesterday. Lowe is a different issue of course. Anyway… fire TP!

  21. 1. Infante SS, 2. Prado 2B, 3. Jones 3B, 4. Glaus 1B, 5. McCann C, 6. Cabrera RF, 7. Diaz LF; 8. McLouth CF. 9. Hanson RH

    no heyward…

  22. 24,
    There is a difference between making a dumb decision and a decision not working out.

    Derek Lowe was a 4+ win pitcher in 2008. Nobody could’ve predicted this type of decline. You’re embarassing yourself, stop talking.

  23. I, personally, think Wren should have traded Vazquez for Ryan Braun. He’s cheap, and good, and surely the Brewers would give him to us, considering all other 29 teams just exist and ours is the only team that actively strives to win.

    Say we over paid for Lowe, but admit he’s underperformed. Over paying was the mistake. But there was no way to know that JJ would be better in the bigs than he was in the minors, and that Hanson would live up to expectations (He easily could have been Homer Bailey) and also that Lowe would underperform. Reverse all of those, and he’d still be over paid, but we’d need him.

    A trade had to happen BECAUSE WE RAN OUT OF MONEY. That’s because we overpaid for Lowe. Our five starters, and 8 position players should be able to win. The team is not fatally flawed in it’s construction.

    NO GM, AND NO MESSAGE BOARD GENIUS COULD KNOW THAT MCLOUTH, GLAUS, DIAZ, CABRERA, MCCANN, AND CHIPPER WOULD ALL PLAY AT ABOUT 60 PERCENT OF THEIR ABILITIES. No one could know that. All you can do is prepare for it.

    Wren took was JS left him, and turned it in to a lineup and rotation that should win, a bench that should play great (when used one or two at a time) and a top 5 farm system. All with a middle-third of the league payroll.

    What do you WANT?

    THE GUYS JUST AREN’T HITTING.

  24. Folks aren’t hitting that’s for sure.

    But sheesh…when’s the last time the Braves spent some money on a bat?

  25. Tiger224-

    One problem. Wren came in with the cupboard EMPTY.

    We traded half our farm system away for Mark Texeira, and we were never going to compete with the Yanks and Sox for that kind of bat. That meant two things: Fewer position prospects to advance to the big leagues (we had few to begin with.) And fewer total prospects to use in later trades.

    With no GOOD prospects to plug in, that meant MORE HOLES on the big league roster, to fill with the same money. That meant spreading the money around and getting the McLouths, Laroches, and Glauses of the world, guys who could produce, but weren’t sure things.

    Just for example, if we had Salty and Andrus, Salty could have been stuck at 1b til he hit or didn’t. Or he could have been moved for a bat more affordable (monetarily and prospect-wise) than Tex was. Andrus could play second, or be moved in a different trade. If he stayed, Prado or Johnson would have been moved. If Harrison and Feliz were here, we wouldn’t have to sign KK AND Lowe AND trade or Vazquez. That means more money in the coffers, and maybe we didn’t trade Flowers. Another possible 1b bat, or trade piece.

    Add in that Johnson and Francoeur were terrible for us, and there were even more holes that needed to be filled.

    We’re rebuilding. Schuerholz kept reloading and reloading every year we were just good enough to make it in, but with a worse franchise than the year before it. And I think Wren has done a damn good job of rebuilding; giving us something to look forward to, and giving us a product worth watching.

    Francoeur and Johnson never got it right here. Schafer got hurt. Kotchman was just bad. Anderson was just finished. So moves were made. Better players were brought in. And these ARE better players. They should be hitting. They aren’t.

    But I can’t blame that on Wren. I’m as surprised as he is.

  26. Here’s the bottom line: swinging and missing on Lowe and Kawakami has killed us tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow.

    To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
    Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
    To the last syllable of recorded time,
    And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
    The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
    Life’s but a walking shadow, a poor player
    That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
    And then is heard no more: it is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.

    Almost like The Bard was a Braves fan, huh?

  27. At least MacBeth died with harness on his back. Our team dies every night not with a bang but a whimper.

    Yeah, I know, the last half isn’t Shakespeare, but I’ll mix metaphors til the cows come home to roost.

  28. And from the Schadenfreude file: Since April 16th, Francoeur is batting 10-73 with 3 2B, 1 HR, 3 BB, 3 HBP, 2 SF, and 15 K. That’s a 137/ 198/ 219 line. Even Melky’s hit better than that.

  29. I watched this yesterday at my parents house for Mother’s Day. As disappointing as the Braves have been so far, the Royals never fail to remind me that it can always be worse.

  30. Derek Lowe was a 4+ win pitcher in 2008. Nobody could’ve predicted this type of decline. You’re embarassing yourself, stop talking.

    Anybody could have. Many did. Signing a guy coming into his age 36 season to a huge four year deal is asking for it.

    What’s happened since then has been predictable. Lowe started mediocre, tailed off from there and become untradeable. Management has been forced to ship off useful players to make their budget work. Real needs continue to go unaddressed. And yes this is only year two of four. Yikes.

  31. Jurrjens had two people help him off the field earlier today. I think we’ll be seeing more than a couple of starts from Medlen.

  32. Well, that’s not the worst thing, is it? Medlen should improve with time to prepare for starts, and he acquitted himself well against the league’s toughest lineup last time.

  33. It may be a blessing. If Medlen pitches well, it makes it tougher to push him back to the pen if there are one or two better candidates.

  34. I don’t know when the recap will be up. Sometime unpredictable, probably; I’ve got some sleep issues right now. Could be three in the morning. Could be right after the game. Could be eight in the morning.

  35. To quote from the Princess Bride, Mac, “Get some rest. If you haven’t got your health, then you haven’t got anything.”

  36. I’m heading to Milwaukee for Tuesday’s and Wednesday’s games with a couple of law school buddies. If anyone is in the area and wants to meet up for a beer at the game, leave me a post or e-mail me at k-bickford@onu.edu.

  37. Did Chip don Hanson, “Big Red”, or is that already an established nick name for him?

  38. I just want to know what the Red Sox were offering us for Vazquez. Sheesh. I mostly just read this blog, but I posted that I understood and supported the Melky trade at the time. Didn’t mean to start a ruckus.

  39. Davis had given up an opponents’ line of 336/ 428/ 484 going into this game, with 45 hits allowed in 27.2 innings.

    So of course we’re getting no-hit.

  40. i think the word has leaked to the mets that jeffy is not a very good ballplayer. he’s now batting 7th: .236 avg .315 obp

  41. 58—Adam, I really wasn’t trying to single you out; sorry it looked like I was. There has just been a lot of commentary here lately about what a horrible deal that was — as if Melky was the only or even the most important return — and I felt the urge to respond.

  42. I just want to remind everybody that the guy no-hitting us came if with an 8+ ERA.

    This is utterly ridiculous.

    Why is Matt Diaz hitting below .150 against lefthanders?!?

    I do not think you can blame Wren that our guys are leaving their bats at home every single night. This is extreme. 7 guys in a lineup hitting below .250? Four hitting below .200?!?

  43. Mac, at least the Hawks have a winning regular season record.

    Still, break up the Hawks. This current group will not get any better by playing another season together.

  44. This team needs a new manager, a new group of coaches, Chipper to retire and unloading of Derek Lowe.

  45. Who do you even give the error to? All of them?

    Nevermind. That’s Bill James 101. The greater the misplay, the less likely the error.

  46. 73 – No Error. It’s a single. It should be a team error. Or a cruel error of nature.

  47. Finally, a hit with two outs in the 5th against probably the league’s most hittable pitcher.

  48. Hey, a hit and a run!

    Also, Chip said “Let’s see if Braun can throw with a sore arm”…Braun is right-handed and got hit in the left arm.

    Idiot.

  49. Alright, let’s pour it on.

    Think that was Tommy’s best bunt in the big leagues.

  50. Instead of (or maybe in addition to) firing TP, I think we should DFA one of our sub-Mendoza guys. Maybe that will wake up the rest of them.

    *edited.

  51. I know it’s not decisive, but that homer by Glaus just made me feel a little better.

  52. Do the Braves ever fire anyone? Seriously. Somebody, at some point, has to recognize that this is in fact a multi-million dollar operation, and those kind of need accountability.

  53. Wow, even the umps suck. Everyone sucks!

    EDIT: the Brewers announcers called it a “good bunt” too.

  54. chip did it again, he called it a perfect bunt again. twice in a row he did that

  55. i’m willing to concede it was a good bunt, but it definitely wasn’t a perfect bunt.

  56. What I am really hoping is that this breaks us out of the unexplainable prolonged funk we have been in.

  57. This team showed some signs of life Saturday and Sunday in Philly, and they have looked sharp tonight.

    This team is not world series ready or anything, but I see some good signs. McCann and Chipper have to get going before I get happy, but I see a glimmer of hope.

    BTW, as I listen to Chip talk about Brian getting hit, if I was a Brewers batter, I would hope the guy taking up for me would throw it harder than Davis does.

  58. I’m reminded of one game awash in a season of crappiness in the 80’s when the Braves had an offensive outburst and my mom yelled at the tv, trying to get the Braves to save some runs for the next day…

  59. Honesty compels me to report that Hanson is getting some calls on/off the corner which Davis did not. Not that I’m complaining…

  60. How is it effeminate to not care how a lite beer taste? Isn’t a lack of interest in cultivating a sophisticated palate kind of butch? I feel like the commerical should just be “Drink Miller Lite or you’re a Faggot!” It makes no sense except as a juvenile non-sequitar putdown.

    We’re going to win, but will find out tomorrow that McCann has gone blind and Chipper had both of hamstrings removed. They can’t let us be happy for too long.

  61. Me, too, ububba. I think I’ll get some lunch.

    I guess Wagner is never going to get to 400 saves.

  62. @149 I’ve been growing fearful that our sun gives him strength, but is also slowly poisoning him. I’m hoping the “groin pull” is just to give him time for his secret CIA missions in Pakistan.

  63. Jeffry came up with the tying runs on,got ahead 2-0,then struck out on three fastballs. Wonder what the Met fans think about him now.

  64. All the Braves needed to get their offense in high gear was a hermaphrodite appointed to the US Supreme Court.

    Damn…why didn’t I think of that?

    Kagan rules.

  65. C’mon Tiger, no politics (or knuckledragging).

    OK, the Hawks are going down in flames & I’m sure there’ll be plenty of blabber about what’s next.

    But, sad as the Hawks effort has been in the first 2 rounds, I gotta say… Orlando is really good. I would not be shocked if they won it all.

  66. All right, all right…back to my frothing kneejerking ways.

    Just happy to get a win in the books.

  67. Kyle B. you teach at Ohio Northern University? Does Ada have a McDonald’s yet? Love the campus. We visited with my son.

    ‘watching’ the game on game day. Internet glitch right? No way we’ve scored a touchdown tonight.

    tiger224, yikes dude. shame on me though, I laughed.

  68. Glad to see some runs.. But I’m still seeing lots of poor approaches.

    Nate taking hittable strikes and having to protect with two strikes. Chipper twice putting a breaking ball in play in a one strike count, protecting the plate when he doesn’t have to. Diaz has been Diaz. Melky’s put bad pitches in play.

    Not just because of the home runs, but Prado and Glaus have had the best at-bats, as far as I can tell. Take bad pitches, swing at good ones. Prado swung aggressively at a bad breaking ball or two, but at least it was early in the count and he was guessing aggressively.

  69. McLouth really has to get going…he takes so many pitches right down the middle.

    McCann being sent by Snitker was criminally incompetent.

  70. I think tonight just goes to show the difference that hitting with just a little bit of power can make. Most games, the Braves have loads of baserunners, take tons of walks, and don’t convert any of them into runs. Tonight, a little power and a little bit of clutch hitting and they score 8. They could (should?) score 5-6 nightly, given the number of baserunners they usually have. Hopefully they can start cashing them in.

  71. Tommy and Tim, then for three, pack it in?

    Also, yes, I think you’re right Chip. A homer or a couple doubles tossed in with the steady diet of walks and singles, and we’re looking at closer to 5 a night.

  72. Anybody could have. Many did. Signing a guy coming into his age 36 season to a huge four year deal is asking for it.

    No. 2-to-3-win decline per season is not at all normal. Normal decline is 0.5 per season–even at age 36.

    Given he averaged ~4 wins the preceding 3 years, you could reasonably expect 11 wins over the life of the contract–3.5 in 2009, 3.0 in 2010, 2.5 in 2011, and 2.0 in 2012. That’s the least error projection. Nostradamus or Celo the tarot card reader could have predicted he’d completely fall off the map, but anyone else that predicted it was just talking out of their ass.

  73. @ 160 – Johnny, I’m a third year law student here at ONU. I graduate on Sunday. I put off the “real world” for long enough I suppose.

    And we got a McDonalds in the fall of 2009. That’s when you know you’ve made it.

  74. Given he averaged ~4 wins the preceding 3 years, you could reasonably expect 11 wins over the life of the contract–3.5 in 2009, 3.0 in 2010, 2.5 in 2011, and 2.0 in 2012.

    If you expected a 39 year old Derek Lowe to be two wins above average, you don’t understand aging patterns.

    Projecting a linear degradation as you approach 40 makes no sense. But most of the stuff you post about statistics makes no sense, so I’m not surprised. I’m guessing you’ve never taken a class.

    Nostradamus or Celo the tarot card reader could have predicted he’d completely fall off the map, but anyone else that predicted it was just talking out of their ass.

    Being aggressively wrong doesn’t make you less wrong.

  75. Hinske seems like a good dude. Wagner, too. I like Diaz a lot, but I kinda doubt he drinks.

    Heyward would be fun … once he’s of legal drinking age.

  76. David O’Brien

    May 10th, 2010
    11:34 pm
    Hilarious moment in the clubhouse. Bunch of reporters surrounding Prado, holding out recorders as he’s talking. And all of a sudden I notice Prado smiling and trying not to laugh, and I look to my left and there’s a Klondike bar. Moylan is standing there holding the ice-cream treat out like it’s a microphone and he’s a reporter….

    Link Report this comment

  77. Reading that wiki article about baseball nicknames, the ones given by Chris Berman are truly terrible. Is it possible that he is worse than Chip?

  78. Let’s just hope this is the start of something good.

    In fact, in honor of Moylan’s stunt, I think I’ll pop the Foster’s in my fridge.

  79. Projecting a linear degradation as you approach 40 makes no sense. But most of the stuff you post about statistics makes no sense, so I’m not surprised. I’m guessing you’ve never taken a class.

    Ah yes, the man who is convinced that Matt Diaz is worthless after 71PAs (despite a 116 OPS+ in 1271PAs with braves) is a PhD in statistics.

    Please enlighten us, the unwashed masses, of the proper aging curve of MLB players.

  80. If you expected a 39 year old Derek Lowe to be two wins above average, you don’t understand aging patterns.

    No, I expected him to be two wins above replacement, or exactly league average, during his age 39 season.

    Projecting a linear degradation as you approach 40 makes no sense.

    No, no, no, no, no. It doesn’t work that way. You can’t just say “it makes no sense”. You have to say, “it makes no sense because of this and for this reason” and you have to use empirical evidence.

    Of course, you have none, because you don’t know what you’re talking about. My guess is you probably don’t even care, you’re just here to escape the reality that your life is pathetic by trolling. Troll on, troll boy. Lord knows you probably need it.

  81. Oil spills, tornados, earth quakes, floods, I’m starting to wonder about this 2012 thing.

  82. @176 – Congratulations and good luck.

    So we score some runs for someone besides Lowe? New Trend? Reason for hope?

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