Justin Speier vs. Brad Clontz

Justin Speier Statistics and History – Baseball-Reference.com

Seasons with Braves: 1999
Notable Stats: 5.65 ERA, 8 homers in 28 2/3 IP
Notable Achievements: Has made about $20 million as a professional baseball player.

Versus

Brad Clontz Statistics and History – Baseball-Reference.com

Seasons with Braves: 1995-1997
Notable Stats: 4.51 ERA
Notable Achievements: Led NL in appearances with 81 in 1995 despite 5.69 ERA.

130 thoughts on “Justin Speier vs. Brad Clontz”

  1. csg at 168,

    You do realize that you don’t get draft picks unless you offer arbitration?

    Yes I realize that and Im pretty sure we’ll offer it to everyone but GA. I also dont see any of them accepting and Id honestly be surprised if any of the 4 are braves next year

  2. Yeah, I think both relievers will decline arbitration also. They both are in line for huge paydays.

    “I didn’t realize we could decline Hudson’s option and still offer him a smaller contract. Wonder if that’ll happen.”

    I truly hope they will decline it, and will be shocked if they don’t. That’s especially true if Wren is already making noise about acquiring one or two impact bats next year. Paying another starter in his mid-thirties top-of-the-rotation money would be foolish if shoring up the lineup is the offseason priority.

  3. Got to be Spier. To tell the truth, I wasn’t even aware he was still in the league. I pay zero attention to West Coast American League baseball.

  4. Csg,

    I don’t think that we offer arbitration to both Soriano and Gonzalez. I base this on:
    a) If Soriano accepts arbitration, he could very well argue that he deserves to earn at least 8 million per year, and I’m sure that he can win that argument. That number could really mess up our payroll.
    b) I’m not sure that we are extremely interested in giving Soriano another year, after the amount of time that we have used him this year. Mike Gonzalez is a better bet, in my opinion.
    c) Even if Soriano is only offered a nominal raise (7 million), he could very well take it, and again, significantly change our ability to meet our other needs.

    Of course, that’s just what I think, I’m sure my opinion will not affect what the Braves do. That being said, this front office has made some shrewd moves that I have been very happy with over the last two years, and I’m sure that Frank Wren’s decision will be the right one.

    BTW, Mariano Rivera is not a legitimate choice for MVP, Chip.

  5. I’m sure Soriano would decline arb. I mean I can think of two clubs in the NL East that would love to have him – the Phils and the Nats. Add in everybody else with Bad Closers and he’s in line for a big contract.

  6. Seat Painter,

    I guess that it is a risk/reward scenario. But on a more serious note, the thought of seeing Soriano in a Philly uniform killed a little part of my childish innocence.

  7. Wagner’s not made many friends with the phans, but I met him before a game in Atlanta and he was a nice enough guy on the surface. Signed some autographs for early fans and chatted a minute with me. I guess it helped that I just drove down from Charlottesville (he lives right outside of it).

    Wonder how much money he’d demand.

  8. I would love to have Wagner, but he really is serious about closing. I was surprised when he made sure that Boston wouldn’t pick up his option before the trade… I’m not sure that many 38 year-olds would turn down 8 million for a championship-caliber team in the Red Sox. It says a lot about his work ethic (or sense of entitlement)- he’s committed to closing, and he would pass up a great chance at winning a ring for it.

  9. Smitty,
    Got a score for this weekend?

    I don’t think your barber could ever figure these Dawgs.

    #4
    And it only lasted longer than the Korean War.

  10. I say Crompton throws for 350 yards, but the Vols lose 6-5.

    UGA returns one of his 4 INTs for a TD, but UT scores 2 by returning a blocked PAT.

    Lincoln kicks a FG, but doinks 2 off the uprights.

    Game ends on another INT that’s nullified by offsetting penalties.

  11. Great Quote from aFox Sports article on the Dodgers game

    The bases were loaded again when Torre came to get him. “I usually have the starter decide his own fate,” said Torre, citing a lesson learned from his bench coach with the Yankees. “But Don

    Zimmer taught me that this postseason stuff is all about not being patient, and doing what you feel you need to do at the time you need to do it.”

    When you wonder about the Braves lack of succcess in the post season as compared to regular season 2001 to 2005, maybe that gives some insight.

  12. braves14’s SEC power rankings:

    1. Bama
    2. Florida
    3. LSU
    4. Auburn
    5. UGA
    6. USC
    7. Ole Miss
    8. Arkansas
    9. Tennessee
    10. Kentucky
    11. MSU
    12. Vandy

  13. Wagner wouldn’t be so bad, but he does wear down an awful lot over the season.

    He certainly wouldn’t be able to cope with the workloads from this year.

    We do need something left handed to throw at Utley and Howard though.

  14. back on topic, I recall my friends defining “clontz” as the sound of a baseball hitting a scoreboard.

  15. Yes he was terrible, but the only WS win we had came in 1995. Does that mean Bobby isn’t using enough terrible pitchers out of the ‘pen?

  16. Isn’t Clontz also one of the few players to have negative comments or feelings by Bobby Cox enter the public arena?

    My memory is that he complained about not being used in better situations and Cox more or les said (privately wihich later got out) “If I wasn’t using that [expletivedeleted]like I was using him he would hav eno business being in the league.” And, thereafter, Schuerholz moved Clontz on.

  17. Mac,

    As I told you over the phone yesterday, I hadn’t logged onto Bravesjournal in a while but I echo all the sentiments being overjoyed that you are CANCER FREE. That’s the kind of offseason news that trumps anything Wren may do! :-)

    http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-braves/braves-could-trade-pitcher-157114.html#story-continued

    I am sure this has been WELL debated the last week or so, but my 2 cents is this: do not trade Javy Vazquez. The guy was flat out awesome and arguably the best of all the starters – I consider him the #1 at this point.

    So, either figure out a way to deal Lowe or Kawakami (who was pretty good overall), or simply let Hudson go. Hudson is 34 and I just don’t buy that he’ll be an elite ace anymore. He will be good, just not great.

    Though it sounds like it won’t, I’d love to see LaRoche brought back say for a 1 year deal with an option, and bring both closers back. If the ownership is at all serious about winning, they have to accept a small uptick in overall payroll.

  18. Stu’s SEC Power Rankings:

    1. Florida
    2. Bama
    3. LSU
    4. Georgia
    5. Auburn
    6. Arkansas
    7. USC
    8. Ole Miss
    9. Tennessee
    10. MSU
    11. Vanderbilt
    12. Kentucky

    It’s tempting for me to move MSU up to 8th and bump Ole Miss and UT down. And Kentucky may well be better than us, but I can bring myself to acknowledge that unless/until they beat us head-to-head.

  19. Smitty,
    Like I said, with these Dawgs anything seems possible.

    FWIW, listening to WFAN today is hysterical. You’d think it would be chest-pounding Yankee fans or Yankee-hating Mets fans chiming in about the ALDS mismatch.

    Nope. It’s unanimous disdain for one Mr. Chip Caray.

  20. @24

    Perhaps but also…

    Teams Don Zimmer managed:

    San Deigo Padres
    Boston Red Sox
    Texas Rangers
    Chicago Cubs

    not exactly world series champs

  21. WTH?

    Giles’ wife told officers she was making a citizen’s arrest on her husband for battery,

    That strikes me as a VERY strange way for something like that to go down… Police show up and they’re sitting in a parked car and she says she’s making a citizen’s arrest? Wouldn’t she “want to press charges”? Not saying he’s innocent, just that it sounds very strange.

  22. is there anything sillier than someone making a citizens arrest?……………ububba, teams using ineligible players generally do forfeit the games they played in. not that it will make you feel any better or really change anything.

  23. The Braves won’t a RH power hitter.

    Wren deals well with Detroit.

    Miggy Cabrera isn’t the most popular Tiger ever right now.

    What does it take to get Cabrera out of Detroit? He’d replace LaRoche at 1B or possibly play LF if they resigned LaRoche.

  24. Yes. Absolutely, positively, yes. Buy low. Sell high.

    26 year old 1B/LF/3B (in that order probably) that just consistently posts 950 OPS’s. If you could get him, you do it in a heartbeat. I’ll take a boozer who hits like that every day and twice on Sunday.

  25. Cabrera? Hmmm …

    Not my favorite guy, but as someone said about Bonds, “He’s a jerk, but he’s a jerk that can hit.”

    Sometimes dudes mature a little after an embarrassing incident.

  26. If the Braves could get Cabrera without giving up Hanson, Jurrjens or Heyward I think you absolutely have to pull that trigger.

  27. All dude did was rip the cover off the ball all year long, just like he’s done for his entire career. I trust Cox to manage him.

  28. Yeah, showing up drunk is usually a bad idea (though it seemed to work for Mantle and Ruth).

    Ya know, I’d love to be able to respond wittily to Stu’s obvious taunt, but as my old pappy used to say:

    “Never stop to make a point when you’re in full retreat.”

    Now, if we somehow manage to beat the Old Ball Coach (for the first time ever) this Saturday, I’ll be back with mots blazing.

  29. Miguel Cabrera is a crappy human being who can hit better than nearly everyone. If he comes cheap, we can afford to get him a chauffeur.

    EDIT: I should clarify what I mean by “cheap,” since he’s owed $126 million through 2015. If we could trade Manny Acosta to the Tigers for Miguel Cabrera plus lotsa cash, then I’d totally do it. If we’d have to trade Jair Jurrjens to the Tigers for Miguel Cabrera plus no cash, then I would totally not do it.

  30. “Dear Ryan Church. Your Christian mission this year is to drive Miggy around and keep him from sin. And spot start in center and right.”

    You don’t build a roster around their record for volunteering down at the homeless shelter. You build a roster around the ability to hit the damned ball, or if that fails, their ability to keep the other team from hitting the damned ball.

  31. I can’t imagine the Tigers would seriously consider dealing Cabrera. And if they would, I would not hesitate to send Jurrjens back to them in exchange.

  32. Cabrera didn’t show up drunk for a game, did he? I thought Dombrowski had to bail him out of jail for being drunk in the early morning.

  33. Ah, I missed this part (from the ESPN story):

    The 26-year-old Cabrera registered a 0.26 blood alcohol content, more than three times above Michigan’s legal driving limit. The average person metabolizes alcohol at about the rate of .015 per hour, Fell said in a phone interview.

    An experienced drinker would metabolize alcohol at about .020 per hour. That means that “the standard person” would have required more than 17 hours to metabolize alcohol that had reached a level of 0.26. An experienced drinker would have required 13 hours to metabolize alcohol at that level, Fell said.

    Pretty bad. Neither I nor anyone else here is in a position to know whether something like this would happen again, whether Cabrera is genuinely remorseful, etc., but if the organization signed off on him, I’d be all for it.

    Like I said, though, I doubt he’s going anywhere.

  34. Hell of a hitter, but are we going to spend $19M a year on him for the next 6 many years?!?!? That doesn’t sound like anything Wren would consider.

  35. I don’t care if he shows up high on crack, so long as he smacks the hell out of little white baseballs while high on crack. Whatever his personal problems this year, he ha smacked all holy hell out of baseballs while dealing with them.

    I agree with Stu that it doesn’t really line up well, organizationally. It’s really just a wish-cast – “Man, wouldn’t it be nice if the Braves had a 26 year old Miggy Cabrera locked in during the peak Hanson/Heyward years?” I don’t think the Tigers are stupid enough to trade Miggy’s contract for Lowe’s.

  36. Sam, the point is that he showed up drunk/severely hungover and he didn’t hit, in a game that would have wound up putting the Tigers into the playoffs.

  37. Ignoring the drunk thing, are we better/worse off spending $19M for Cabrera for the next 6 years or $15M for Lowe + $9M for LaRoche for the next 3 years? Long term means you’ve got a 3B to replace Chipper, short term 1B for ’10-11 till Freeman comes up and LF for a season if Chipper hasn’t retired? You’ve still got to replace Vasquez in ’11 though… I don’t know… I guess it’s closer than I thought initially looking at that 19M, but it’s still wouldn’t make me real comfortable even if the Tigers would do it (I’d feel pretty good about ’10, it’s after that I’d start worrying about having that much locked up in one player considering our salary constraints).

  38. C’mon Mac. One game samples? Really? I’m not defending his actions and it’s pretty clear that whereever he plays he needs to get into some counselling of some sort. But with that said, he posted an OPS above 940 this year. In a hitters park, in the AL. You don’t let a little moralistic snit get in the way of acquiring that sort of hitter, if you can.

    Again, I don’t think he’s available, but if he were the Braves would be insane not to be in on that action.

  39. @69

    The reason you need to start looking at scenarios for acquring a player like Cabrera is *because* Chipper might be done a lot sooner than anyone had planned for. The Braves rebuild plans hinged on getting good talent to support their stellar prospects and wrapping that around one or two more years of Chipper being Chipper. Without Chipper – if his second half is indicative of a real end-of-career collapse – the entire plan disintegrates. You not only have to develop Heyward and fill 1B, you also have to find a true, middle of the order, bats third and dominates the lineup sort of hitter. Cabrera is one of very few players in the game who might pull the “replace Chipper” trick off.

  40. Showing up drunk and unable to play isn’t really a small sample size type baseball skill subject, it’s a lack of a life skill indicative of a bigger problem (one it would be hard to fault a GM for thinking twice before spending over $100M on somebody who exhibits it). There aren’t many jobs where showing up drunk, just one time, isn’t enough to get you canned.

  41. Do we have any evidence that this is a trend for Cabrera? I’m not saying Detroit doesn’t have every right to part ways with an employee for pulling that stunt. In fact, my entire premise is that they might be foolish enough to do just that, thus giving Atlanta an opportunity to buy low on their emotional outburst.

    If Cabrera has been showing up drunk with any frequency it sure as shit hasn’t shown up in his stat line.

  42. I don’t think we have evidence of a trend. We only have a small sample size to base how well he can hit WHILE drunk. But, I think we only NEED a small sample size of “showing up drunk” or more accurately “have to be bailed out and being so drunk you’re going to be playing still somewhat drunk” to give serious pause regarding taking on his very large contract.

    Now if he was a free agent, or had a reasonably cheap contract, it would be one thing to “give him a shot”, but as he isn’t either of those, we’d be taking on a known, rather large, cost for an unknown risk of how much will his apparent drinking problem cause him to be unable to perform (and if so, how much time might you lose during those 6 years). On the free agent market would he even get that much ($19M/year) now unless it was from the Yankees or Boston?

  43. 26 year old signed for 6 years who has never hit UNDER 130 OPS+ in a full season. I think I would put up with a few moral frailties for that.

    There aren’t many jobs where showing up drunk, just one time, isn’t enough to get you canned.

    If you succeeded at your job at the level Cabrera does I guaran-dam-tee you you could be the CEO of freakin’ Al-Anon and show up smashed every goddam day and get away with it.

  44. [note: distasteful and not work safe]
    ” rel=”nofollow”>Check out my roommate’s jack-o’-lantern

    It’s sitting on top of the toilet.

  45. “Does Leyland survive Detroit’s epic fail?”

    did anyone hear Chip right after this game was over. He said and I quote “you really have to give Leyland credit here, this is one of his most successful managerial seasons.”

    idiot

  46. #71, I think in a couple of years Heyward will be our #3, dominates the lineup hitter.

    We need a cleanup hitter.

  47. yes, 26 yo signed for 6 more years… but at 26 Doc Gooden had a good season, but after that was on his way downhill, at 26 Strawberry only had 3 more good years…

    I don’t think a mid-market team with a salary in the sub $120M/yr range like the Braves could take the gamble that they only get 2-3 more good years because of personal problems when you’ll be paying him $19M a year for 6 years… I’m not even sure they could handle paying him $19M if he has no further problem because that is a LARGE chunk of the payroll taken up in one guy for a long time.

    Again, I’m not saying he wouldn’t be a valuable resource, just that I think taking him on wouldn’t necessarily be the best gamble/use of money for the Braves.

  48. So, after one drunken incident, we’re ready to assume Cabrera has or will soon have a cocaine problem?

  49. Again, I’m not saying he wouldn’t be a valuable resource, just that I think taking him on wouldn’t necessarily be the best gamble/use of money for the Braves.

    The overwhelming majority of batters who hit like a HoFer through age 26 continue to do so through their early 30’s. There’s next to no gamble at all here.

  50. Yes Stu, that is EXACTLY what I was saying, it wasn’t at all about equating highly talented ballplayers who have demonstrated self destructive behavior and how that behavior can cause problems in the long run because that would have been totally irrelevant to a discussion relating to a player already signed to a long term contract.

    And just to throw some more fuel on the fire:

    http://www.wxyz.com/news/story/Miguel-Cabreras-Other-Run-in-with-the-Law/ycxssRt2LEOYHyYSF1zj7Q.cspx

    And again. NOT saying he wouldn’t be a valuable ballplayer OR that he will continue to self-destruct, JUST that it is a thing which happens and that makes it a gamble (with 1/5th or 1/6th of the teams salary).

  51. Cabrera might have sunk the Tiger’s chances in game 161, but then again, without him, the Tigers would have been dead well before that.

  52. Charles, you made a worthless comparison. Rafael Furcal was getting drunk when he was 20 or 23 or whatever. Kerry Collins was doing the same. (These are just off-the-top-of-my-head examples—the point is that what happened to two random guys you name doesn’t predictb jack-squat about what will happen with Miguel Cabrera.)

    You’re in no position to say whether Cabrera is self-destructive or would be trouble for the Braves. As I said above, I trust the opinions of the folks who are actually close to the situation and would have much more ability to critically analyze him going forward (read: the Braves’ front-office due dilligence performers). If we were to trade for Miguel Cabrera, it would only be because the people with a lot more information than you or I have think it’s a wise decision.

  53. Well, I tried to edit but failed.

    I wanted to change “worthless” to “meaningless” in the first line. And I wanted to add that I agree with you that Cabrera’s history should give pause to any inquiring GM—but I do think it’s pointless for us to gnash our teeth about it, given the enormous lack of information at our disposal relative to what the Braves’ decision-makers have.

  54. Also, there is no chance the deal’s getting done, considering the dollars involved. It just isn’t happening. I’m done daydreaming about it. He’s a supremely gifted hitter and a careless, self-destructive person, dating back to his Marlins days when he ate his way off 3rd base.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Jason Heyward is quite possibly the greatest living American.

  55. #71, I think in a couple of years Heyward will be our #3, dominates the lineup hitter.

    That would be very nice, and it’s certainly well within the realm of possibility. But the kid can’t even drink legally and hasn’t had any real experience above AA. I don’t think we have enough data to just write him into Chipper’s slot in the lineup just yet.

  56. Boston would make some sense, yes, but I would be pissed off if I was a Tigers fan. They have a nice young rotation and play in the weakest division in the AL.

    Also: I’m pretty pleased the Phillies dropped a Hamels-Cook matchup this afternoon. Now the two teams will have to play in 38 degrees on Saturday. Gotta love October baseball!

  57. I’ve really enjoyed the number of times that Dodgers announcers have brought up how Adam Wainwright is a product of the Braves organization.

  58. I really enjoyed having Drew on the team the year that he was here and even knowing what I know now I still probably wouldn’t go back and undo that trade were it possible. I guess it makes me have more sympathy for Tigers fans. At least we got an All Star caliber season for giving up a future ace. I’d most likely hate the whole thing much less if we’d lost Wainwright to anyone but the Cardinals.

  59. Haha, I love Vin Scully. On last night’s game: “It was like a fat man’s picnic, where there was a keg of beer at third base and everybody kept gathering around.”

  60. @99

    Yeah, that was awesome. Only a legend like Scully could get away with saying that.

  61. damn………a ballplayer showed up in no shape to play?? stop the presses !!!…….its pretty clear that alcohol is a gateway drug and by age 30 Cabrera will be a junkie selling his sisters on a Miami street corner. in the meantime, he sure would look good in a Braves uni even though i know theres no way thats gonna happen.

  62. On behalf of Alex R’s everywhere, I’d just like to say how happy I am that the Cardinals, one strike from victory, gave up the tying run.

    I understand that if I were an old-school Braves fan I’d hate the Dodgers. But La Russa’s the one I hate.

    EDIT: Cousin Ronnie with the game-tying RBI. I tellya, the guy is a solid player.

  63. just imagine the Braves in the playoffs and ACHE playing a ball like Holiday.it would be fodder for this site for years……….. that would have been a horrible play for a little leaguer and the worst was the sprawling nosedive after he missed the catch. what was that about? ……… i guess one of these teams has to win(unfortunatly)and Torres’ luck continues to be golden.

  64. Stu, I too was trying to edit earlier, but instead of follow up posting I headed for the door at work. I was going to say that I realize that there are probably more 25yo’s who screw up and turn it around than those that just downward spiral. I was primarily trying to say that it wasn’t a “no brainer” and that the GM would be in need of some due diligence (that they would do anyway).

    The Mike Hampton saga has made me leary of our team tying up BIG bucks in any one player and 6 years at 19M is big friggin bucks (if we were going to pay that much for production I don’t think we’d have run away from Tex at 22M). Though I’d be very happy if we took a McCann style contract to more promising young players… Escobar, JJ and Hanson come to mind. I can see why we can’t afford to pay somebody that much (and how the Yankees and BoSox can), but I can’t figure out how Detroit of the even-worse-than-the-rest-of-the-country’s-crapy-economy can.

  65. dob thinks nelson cruz’s name will come up as a target. i’d take cruz. also in this segment, look who dob give a shoutout to. i hope he doesnt see it…

    “Anyway, here’s a name that I think will come up next week: Rangers outfielder Nelson Cruz. Yes, the guy that our own Coach (of the blog, or at least he used to be, haven’t seen him around much lately) suggested Cruz as the answer a year ago. If the Braves had traded for him instead of signing Garret Anderson, hey, they’d have probably been a better team. But the same could be said for Bobby Abreu and other relatively low-cost options).”

  66. 112, I screamed for the entire off season last year for the Braves to make an offer for Nelson Cruz. I also wanted the Angels Juan Rivera who was a free agent. Rivera put up a 25 HR, 88 RBI, .287 BA season and plays outstanding defense. I’ll toot my own horn, I was right on both players.

    I’ll second KC’s belief toward Jermaine Dye but will he fit into the Braves budget? And Dye will be 36 next year.

    The Marlins are gonna trade Dan Uggla. His 30 HR 90 RBI bat would fit nicely in LF, but the dude strikes out a ton, can’t run or maintain a decent BA, and his defense is suspect no matter where he’s at in the field.

    I’ll once again put in my two cents for Luis Durango. The dude is pure unadulterated killer speed. Lightning in a bottle is what he is, and just waiting for some enterprising GM to steal his butt away from the lowly Padres.

    Durango plays all the outfield positions, can lead off or bat down in the bottom of the order. He’s a switch hitter, can pinch run, pinch hit, come in as a late inning defensive replacement, spot start. etc.etc.etc. He is the perfect fourth outfielder and makes the league minimum. Replacing Greg Norton with this guy is a no brainer.

    Chone Figgins is going to hit free agency but I doubt the Angels are gonna let him get away. The dude is the spark plug that makes the Halo’s offense and running game go.

  67. Wow, John Lackey laid a goose egg on the Red Sox. Good for him and the Halo’s.

  68. 112, I screamed for the entire off season last year for the Braves to make an offer for Nelson Cruz. I also wanted the Angels Juan Rivera who was a free agent. Rivera put up a 25 HR, 88 RBI, .287 BA season and plays outstanding defense. I’ll toot my own horn, I was right on both players.

    Nice. And everyone was right on Francoeur being awful for us this year except Gadfly.

  69. 36 — I’ll be tempted to move Georgia way down if they lose to Tennessee, or are even in a close game.

  70. #122
    Every game UGA has played has been close—4 have come down to the very last play. No reason to believe this one won’t be tight.

  71. The Angels also got Abreu for relative peanuts… as much as Wren has done right, I’m still a little shocked we managed to land not a single decent-hitting outfielder out of last year’s crop.

    Also, with Cruz, it’s worth noting that in 2009 he had some significant home-road splits:

    Home: .286/.362/.568
    Road: .232/.300/.478

    Of course, Cruz would still be an enormous upgrade over ACHE–he’d be good for 30 HR or so anywhere he plays–but it’s nonetheless worth noting.

  72. Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back there, Coach. Having the vision that allowed you to predict a bounceback year from a young player is pretty special. We sit in awe of your gifts.

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