Perciform game thread: Aug. 23, Marlins at Braves

Look it up.

Okay, here’s my team MVP ballot:

1. Escobar
2. McCann
3. Vazquez
4. Chipper
5. Prado

You could easily make arguments for Jurrjens and Soriano as well.

167 thoughts on “Perciform game thread: Aug. 23, Marlins at Braves”

  1. OK, I’ll contribute to the Braves MVP discussion. Looking at RAR, the team’s MVP is–clearly and indisputably–Javier Vazquez. Here’s the list of notables:

    Name – RAR
    Javier Vazquez – 44.9
    Brian McCann – 33.2
    Yunel Escobar – 29.0
    Jair Jurrjens – 28.6
    Nate McLouth – 22.4
    Chipper Jones – 21.8
    Martin Prado – 21.1
    Adam LaRoche – 19.3
    Rafael Soriano – 16.1
    Mike Gonzalez – 10.5

    I don’t know about a team MVP being a starting pitcher, though. A starter only has impact once every 5 days.

    RAR considers defense, and Chipper takes a huge hit because of it. The team’s best hitters have been, in order, Chipper, LaRoche, McCann, and Yunel.

    The fact that McLouth has only hit .260/.344/.419 in his time with Atlanta takes him out of the running. LaRoche could be squarely in this conversation at the end of the season, but having been with the team for less than 80 PA’s, he’s not really in the conversation, either.

    Another thing about RAR. They don’t really know how to handle catcher’s defense so they just don’t include it. It’s admirable that they’ll admit they don’t know how to properly handle something, but not including it is a bad solution. So McCann would most undoubtedly suffer if defense were considered. Even if he’s been better in that department.

    I’m pretty sure Fangraphs has Yunel’s defense wrong. They’ve got him at -2.4 runs defensively. Dewan has Escobar at +11 runs defensively. I guess two shockingly similar systems can conclude radically different things.

    Prado just hasn’t played enough.

    Right now, I’m thinking it’s a toss-up between Yunel and Vazquez. Though I lean towards Yunel because of the fact that an every-day player has more impact than a starting pitcher.

  2. I’d put my MVP list like this:

    1. Escobar – Indisputable, really.
    2. Tie: Vazquez/JJ – Sharpest pitchers all year, dependable…valuable
    3. McCann – Leader of the team and picked up the slack for Chipper
    4. Soriano – Outside of some home runs, the guy that locked down our bullpen during tough times
    5. Prado – Greatly exceeded expectations and has given a lot of confidence to the team, especially in place of KJ

    Hanson should be given consideration too. Chipper hasn’t really been THAT valuable this year, at least not more than any of the people mentioned above. And the argument for LaRoche is there (and McLouth) but as stated – not enough at bats. Could we possibly say that Wren is the actual MVP? A few of his decisions, at least, deserve consideration. ;)

  3. PWHjort – Right on the money. Yunel has my vote year-to-date but it isn’t a slam dunk and could change over the final 6 weeks. Javy and Prado are personal faves but just aren’t on the field enough to overtake Yunel so far. Chipper probably doesn’t get the consideration he deserves — after all, he’s set his own bar so high — but Yunel can pretty much do it all and has so far.

  4. I’ll go with

    1. Escobar
    2. Prado
    3. Vasquez
    4. Jurrjens
    5. Chipper

    By the end of the year, Hanson or Laroche might crack the list and Soriano and McCann are worthy contenders too.

  5. I swear this isn’t because he just hit a homer — but the all-star catcher who is leading the team in homers and RBI isn’t one of the five most valuable players on the team?

  6. If you’re still keeping the gloassry, then “killed the rally” needs to go in there. Who first said that, by the way?

  7. Gload tried to bunt Coghlin over to second before grounding out- so whatever Bobby has is contagious.

  8. Anyone else watching the Marlins telecast? These guys are absolute clowns. After B-Mac hit his 3 run shot, they talked about how Nolasco should consider beaning someone. They even talked about the importance of “getting the first shot in” because there would be no repercussions.

    Folks, not even Chip Caray is that bad.

  9. Gameday says “Chris Coghlan out at 3rd, Brian McCann to Chipper Jones” – why wasn’t that a caught stealing?

  10. 14,
    I haven’t been watching the series that closely, but it doesn’t seem like there’s been any animosity or anything to cause it.

  11. Pretty much any guy you wanna go with for team MVP has a bit of a caveat.

    Even the team has had 2 different seasons—before and after the lineup was overhauled. I guess the demarkation point would be the Francoeur trade.

    IMO, it’s gotta be Yunel, despite his Little-League-ish, bonehead moments. He’s played a great SS and—even with his recent power slump (last night notwithstanding)—he’s been the most consistent guy in the lineup.

    JJ & Vazquez have been terrific. They’ve pitched well & gone deep into games. But let’s face it, they’ve been unlucky in the most basic sense: No support, esp. in the first half. There’s plenty of value, but the (team) wins aren’t there. Plenty of residual value in saving the bullpen, though.

    Prado & Hanson—incomplete seasons. Prado gave this team the offensive spark it needed when it was desperate.

    I’m real curious to see how Hanson finishes up. To me, he’s the most exciting guy on the team. Crazy as it sounds, somehow I get the feeling we haven’t seen his best. Yesterday was the first time I saw him with consistently nasty breaking stuff. IMO, he could really be that special.

    Chipper & McCann—easy to take for granted. They have to be good, or the team just isn’t. Chipper’s fallen off somewhat dramatically in the field & he’s in a real hitting slump now. Still, he’s Chipper & I love when he’s up in a big spot. He still gets on base like crazy. He’s a pro & I’m so happy I get to root for him.

    B-Mac’s been good, one of the game’s best at his position. He’s just not having any kind of breakout year and he’s had some slumps, not to mention those eye issues. Hope that HR gets him going. We need a big finish.

    Soriano was pretty unhittable for most of the season, but we all know he’s had some trouble in the past few weeks. LaRoche? He’s been incredible. We’ll see how he ends up.

    What can you say? It all adds up to a team that’s on a pace to win 86 games. Pretty good, but maybe not good enough.

    I have a hard time offering a Top 5, but I’d go:
    1. Yunel
    2. JV/JJ
    3.Chipper/B-Mac
    4. Prado
    5. Soriano

  12. How about MVeP? Most Valuable ex-Player?

    Jeff Francoeur.

    This has been a totally different ballclub since Frank Wren got rid of his Lilburn ass.

  13. Well, while observing Nolasco one thing is apparent. He is definitely tipping his fastball. The Braves are gonna light his ass up for a few more runs before it’s all said and done.

  14. Can we either send KJ to catching-the-ball school or give him a Gary Sheffield mitt (the size of Texas) please?

  15. There was no way Paulino wasn’t going to double there. I actually said it out loud after Joe talked about a ground ball — “This time he’s going to double into the gap”. KJ will get the blame, but let the record show that stupid Lowe threw a ball over the plate 0-2 to an eighth-place hitter who will swing at anything.

  16. Mac, I didn’t see the replay of the pitch but Boog and Joe said the pitch tailed back to the middle of the plate. Did it?

  17. Derek Lowe ain’t looking so hot either. His sinker is up and the low ball hitting Marlins have tagged him for six runs already thanks to his lack of control, and some suspect defense.

  18. RJ – the fastball (why was he throwing one anyways on an 0-2 count) started on the outside corner and moved to the center of the plate. Its what they call a perfect hitters pitch

  19. We can’t freaking expect to have Gorecki in the lineup and expect to win. Wren, we have to call up Brandon or Heyward or whoever. We can’t have a full bench of hurts.

  20. Crap, KJ looked awful in that at bat in this fourth inning and Chipper gets robbed. Damn.

  21. why do companies like AL and GA power pay for advertising? Its not like they have competitors

  22. @46 I know Mac, this is so sad.

    @44 That’s what I am thinking as well…but maybe they have some side-business to promote?

  23. If we give anymore starts to Gorecki after this game, I have to rethink my assessment on Wren.

  24. so with Gorecki in the lineup and Norton the only bench player, how can you not DL one of Prado Church or ACHE

  25. @59 I have no clue what they are thinking. Having such a thin bench is just stupid. May as well just call up Schafer now. At least he can play a better centerfield than freaking Gorecki.

  26. Man this Church guy sure does stay injured a lot.

    Gorecki is like Schaeffer all over again. A big black hole in the 8th spot.

    The ACHE injury was so predictable…Bobby running him out there everyday like he is 25 y/o instead of 37 y/o.

  27. Cox should have hit and run when Diaz was up. Instead, we get nothing after three hits.

    Gorecki and Norton were simply over matched. They had no chance. No aggression from the manager and we end up with nothing.

    Ridiculous!

  28. Right Mac, keep it by the book.

    Never mind the fact that the Braves were sitting on every fastball Nolasco threw over the plate.

    Three hits and nothing, that is sheer ineptitude and there is no excuse for it. Cox is an idiot.

  29. Was that as strong of an inning for Medlen as it seemed like on Gameday?

    And in the 5th inning, why didn’t they just let Medlen hit for Lowe. it isn’t like Norton is that much better, but now everybody is burned in a close game with 4 innings to go.

  30. KJ just sucks. He was late on the 90mph fastballs. He is another black hole besides Gorecki. Forget about it. We will not be able to score anymore runs.

  31. Norton has no business being in a major league uniform and it’s Bobby’s fault that he is still eating up space on this team.

  32. Typical. We keep having runners on but can’t get the two out hits.

    @72 Looking at the positive side, at least Norton can’t get anymore at-bats today!

  33. At least Schaefer drew walks and gave us plus range in center field. Gorecki is utterly useless.

  34. Is this one of those games? Or do we pull the rabbit out of the hat?

    Mac,
    I get that, but I’m not one to totally discount the stat.

    The numbers certainly say that JV has had a better season, but I put them together (on a list like that) because the team’s results have been very similar. In games they’ve pitched, the team is .500 for both of them. (Plus, I didn’t want to have a Top 6.)

    I think the other clubs have figured out Gorecki in a hurry: He really can’t handle the high, hard one.

    And the no-bench thing is killing us this week. Can anybody handle a bat today?

  35. Seriously, why didn’t the Braves call up Brandon Jones (whose OPS is like 900 this month) or Brian Barton instead of Gorecki. B. Jones and Barton could potentially be pieces of this organization’s future or be used to acquire one. Gorecki is just organizational filler crap.

  36. Wow, we scored!

    @79 We are just saying that to say how bad Gorecki is.

    With our luck, the Marlins will score in the next half.

  37. Medlen’s going to start someday. He needs to learn how to hit. Vazquez is almost an automatic out. Why not let him see some pitches?

  38. Why did the “gray genius” switch out Medlen for Javier Vazquez? Wanted to get Javy hurt, maybe? Medlen is at least as good of a hitter anyway.

    Of course, Wren made him do it. I forgot.

  39. I know Medlen’s hitless in the majors, but he hit well in the minors and was a college infielder. I could see it if the Marlins had a lefty out there.

  40. Tie game. Medlen is pitching well. What is the point of a PH and a pitching change? Leave him in the game, why don’t ya?

  41. I would have definitely le him hit. He was alittle over 30 pitches. bullpen is fairly rested with an of day tomorrow; however, chance of extras today. i would have probbly let Medlen pitch one more too.

  42. Just got back to NY, enjoyed my trip to Atlanta.

    Question: Is there a way to download or just watch Friday night’s game online? Is there some sort of archive. I think my uncle and I were on TV and I’d love to check it out.

    Any help would be most appreciated.

  43. There is no point for Javy to hit. Just let Medlen hit for himself and save Javy later for possible sac bunt or pinch running when you need one. Bobby just loves to burn players for no reason.

    @93 JoeyT, I think the Braves have every intention to keep Medlen in the pen forever.

  44. #100. mlb.com will have both the Braves and the Mets broadcasts, but you’ll have to subscribe.

  45. That’s awesome, Frenchy lined into an unassisted triple play to end the game. You can’t get any better than that.

  46. I know it’s the gambler’s fallacy but it sure seems like KJ is due. It would certainly be a good time for him to come through.

  47. Those are extremely rare. I remember Furcal’s like it was yesterday, but it has been about 5 years.

  48. here’s where Fredi may be helping us, KJ and Chipper have never gotten a hit off of Calero and both of them are hitting over .300 vs lefties

  49. There’s not much more a hitter can do to hurt his team that end an inning with no outs and two on.

  50. Jeff Francoeur just lined into a triple play to end the Phillies/ Mets game off Brad Lidge.

    Gotta love Frenchy!

  51. Is KJ’s at bat maybe a different version of “take the out, stupid”? High fastballs to make it hard to bunt. Then, don’t find the strike zone.

  52. This is just another in a long series of Murphy’s Law Moments for the 2009 New York Mets. Really, really bizarre doings in Flushing this year.

    Can we just win this damn game right here?

  53. Anybody think McCann gets pitched to there if Kotchman is still on the club?

    I think you walk Mc every single time if ACHE is hitting behind him.

  54. McCann is badass today.

    Let’s pour it on until we get to Acostaville.

    To give you an idea of how weird the Mets season continues to be, that’s only the second time in MLB history that a game has ended on an unassisted triple play. The last time was 1925.

    WFAN will be chock full o’ yucks tomorrow.

  55. If Escobar hits it to the right centerfield wall, do any runs score? Any way 2 score? This IS a slow team.

    JJ told Jim Powell that he was faster than everybody on the team other than Matt Diaz. Even McLouth. Weird, huh?

  56. I remember that the ’62 Mets season (and Richie Ashburn’s career) ended on a triple play, but it wasn’t unassisted.

  57. Hell, I do it. You ever notice how after some losses, I get the recaps up about a minute later? Nearly all of Friday’s recap was written during the rain delay, and hastily rewritten when they came back to play.

  58. To make deadline, you have to have the thing written. You can turn in the story and always amend it later.

    When I covered UGA sports for the campus newspaper, sometimes I’d re-write my lede 3 or 4 times.

  59. 148, if that is accurate, what a way for Jeff Francoeur to get into the record books.

  60. Now, maybe Wren and Cox can fix the roster a little by Tuesday. Somehow. Send somebody down or d/l somebody and get a functional body up now.

  61. Seems like we won another season-in-the-balance game today.

    But yeah, the bench is a sad state of affairs right now. Gotta address that.

  62. Huge win today for Atlanta. I’m almost starting to believe.

    I’ll take the 2 out 3 that they’ve been getting but I would love to see a 7-10 game win streak at some point here.

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