157 thoughts on “Too mean game thread: July 19, Mets at Braves”

  1. a novel concept to some who are only familiar with stats…

    I thought that sort of gratuitous ad hominem was reserved for sportswriters. You moonlighting, Barry?

  2. Posted in last thread:

    I just wish everyone would stop trying to compare how Cox handles Yunel to other players on the team. Yunel is a bonehead and makes very poor decisions. If anything, last night’s play is the perfect example of why Bobby has a problem with him. Give anyone else on the team a hit-and-run sign, and they swing. That is what you do. If it is 3 feet outside, you throw the freakin’ bat at the ball. Things like this make it hard for a manager to trust a player in these situations. I was taught that in high school, so I know these players know it. It limits how a manager can manage a game. So what do you think the chances are the Cox feels he can call a hit-and-run in a very important game down the road with Yunel up to bat? Why can’t yall see where this is a problem?

    I like Yunel, and I’d much rather see Cox gone before him – but Cox had every reason to be upset about that play.

  3. Anyone else upset the Phils got away with one yesterday? They were set to face one of the best pitchers in the league, already down 2, and the game gets postponed. The baseball gods can be cruel at times.

  4. and we as fans have every right to be upset about the bonehead decisions made by our manager in yesterdays game also…

  5. @5 – agreed. But that wasn’t my argument. My only argument was that Cox had a right to be angry. Just as we have a right to be angry with him – I think you actually validated my point.

  6. I liked both of those articles, Alex. My post from the last thread got JC’d:
    The X’s and O’s are not the most important part of a manager’s job. That would be maintaining clubhouse chemistry and getting the most out of your players on the field. Some managers excel at strategical decisions. Bobby Cox is not one of those managers. He never has been. I would argue that his on-field decisions aren’t enough reason to warrant a managerial change. Just as I would argue that a manager who excels at the X’s and O’s but doesn’t do the other things right needs to be removed from his position. Now, the question becomes, is Bobby doing a good job of maintaining clubhouse chemistry and is he getting the most out of his players? I don’t know the answer to that. There seems to be more and more evidence every week that the answer to both the questions is “no”. And if that’s the case, a change needs to be made. But I don’t pretend to know whether or not it is ultimately time for him to go. I will continue to scrutinize his on-field decisions, because he makes bad ones all the time. As we all should. That’s what fans do. But I don’t think on-field decisions are ever enough reason to fire a manager. Especially one that players seem to love playing for like Bobby Cox.

  7. And I don’t think you guys would understand the backlash that firing Bobby would have. Chipper, for one, would probably be extremely upset. That whole team, probably outside Yunel, loves Bobby.

  8. Bobby’s staying until he wants to go.

    I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I hope they keep Yunel because he’s a good player, but I just wouldn’t be surprised to see him go.

  9. What kind of backlash would there be?
    None, they would make a quote about how they let Bobby down, then they would put there spikes on and go to work.

  10. Bobby has a heart attack. He spends six weeks recovering while the team is managed by Chino Cadahia. Instead of batting practice and fielding practice, Cadahia encourages double-dinners and a nap before the game.

    A day before he is to return the bench, Bobby is given the option to retire or be released from his contract (“fired”). He refuses to retire and so is released.


  11. McLouth CF
    Prado 2B
    Chipper 3B
    McCann C
    Anderson LF
    Escobar SS
    Kotchman 1B
    Church RF
    Vazquez P

  12. this whole thing reminds me of the constant argument around here about whether a certain 79 yr. old football coach should step down, be left alone or be escorted to the city limits and given the golden boot ……….Cox isnt nearly that old and the fact is, he’s only an Albert Pujols away from being a goddamn genius.

  13. @12 – I think Chipper would say a heck of a lot more than “we let him down”. Chipper would be pissed.

  14. So he would be pissed, then what? He wouldn’t play?
    Coaches get fired all the time, people get fired all the time, but life goes on.

  15. The primary issue that affects morale is winning or losing, the rest is nonsense.

    I would rather a miserable team that wins than a happy bunch that loses.

  16. I want to pick up on the comment that bad “in-game” decisions are not enough reason to boot a manager. Granted. BUT, bad in-game decisions can cost you dearly. Bobby’s decision-making cost the Braves probably 8-10 games last year (maybe that’s exaggerated or I may be forgetting and it was even more). He may have cost us 3-5 games already this season. And, if he’s going to start blasting away at certain players in public rather than deal with things privately — there goes his greatest asset (player management). We’re missing some of the bench coaches (like Ned Yost) who used to help Bobby to help with game management. TP, the Snitz, and even Roger aren’t helping a great deal.

  17. Folks, while we fans snipe away about who is most responsible for our teams failures (I’m of the old-fashioned opinion that, despite the manager’s considerable deficits, it’s the players themselves), the Phillies are quietly running away with the division. Even if the Braves were to reel off ten straight against other teams, if the Phils keep this up, we’re cooked. And how are they doing it?

  18. affect, effect, I always screw that up.
    We better beat the damned Mutts tonight or I will actually be pissed.
    I dont usually get emotional game to game during the season, but I want a winning record this year so we can climb back into relevance in the league.

  19. @21 – you know what is funny about that? Tell me how many games he has won for the team. How do you quantify that? Sure, you can probably say he’s lost us 3-5 – but that is a bit harsh considering how you never hear about a manager winning games. Funny how players win the games, but the managers lose them.

  20. Another one bites the dust… maybe Redding won’t be released…

    Manuel looks like he’s going to cry…

  21. How bout Joe Morgan’s comment last inning about the Phillies being the best team in the division because they “have the best clubhouse camaraderie.”

    Gee, my dumbass thought it had something to do with their having a juggernaut offense – built around three allstar outfielders, a home run machine at first, and one of the best offensive second basemen of all time, not even to mention their former MVP shortstop – in a division full of teams that can’t hit.

    Christ, he’s awful.

  22. Yunel! Thank God they didn’t bench him today for fucking up Bobby’s heinous hit-n-run call yesterday. I admit, I was expecting it.

  23. Surprise, surprise, Joe Morgan thinks Jeff Francoeur “still has that ability.”

  24. That was the last nail in the coffin for Francoeur. Sorry, Jeffrey, but Joe Morgan thinks the Mets will benefit from getting you.

  25. I bet he’s a big Yuniesky Betancourt fan too. He kind of reminds me of our own mentally-challenged, former MLB player Joe…only much, much worse.

  26. Oh and he doesn’t seem capable of jacking off in the booth anymore, which is another crucial difference beteween the two.

  27. Joe Morgan subscribes to the theory that Vasquez doesn’t know how to win. Surprise.

  28. Stole my post, more or less word for word.

    His justification for such a claim? “He’s always had good stuff, as evidenced by the fact that I, Joe Morgan, saw him when he was at Montreal and knew he would be big. But a few years ago, when he went to the Yankees, he couldn’t pitch under the pressure. So in conclusion, he’s a pussy who doesn’t “know how to win” or “finish games off.”

  29. @36–yep, Morgan is practically slobbering on himself–a more telling criticism of Francoeur than all the “Francoeur sucks” comments we posted here

  30. Even with the game being close, and even given that Frenchy came through there…that was the last straw.

    I refuse to listen to this Joe Morgan – Francoeur fest. See you guys later.

  31. Jeffy, Jeffy, you’re so great!
    Come to the booth I want to mate!

  32. I am surprised Bobby didnt ask Prado to bunt :P

    What a waste to a good start to the inning though…

  33. DOB needs one more hit from Yunel!!! I am surprised ACHE didn’t get hurt running the bases. Where’s Frenchy’s strong arm?

  34. Joe Morgan just said Anderson still runs pretty well. Does he actually watch this sport??

  35. Yeah, you really have to wonder if Morgan isn’t actually going blind and just sitting with a 40″ Gameday screen. Maybe some crafty Braille version even.

  36. I think Yunel is are best overall player right now, and TP is putting to rest the “lazy” stuff that was going around here last week.

  37. Hah, I was about to comment on the same thing, Mac. We’ve got to get our 2b to stop cutting in front of Yunel in those situations, because though it may be the right play in most situations, they all have terrible arms, and Yunel’s rocking a cannon.

    I didn’t think to classify it as a Prado though.

  38. What is the DOB/Escobar talk about?

    Tomas – I think that’s his own doing… he’s trying to break his 0-fer

  39. Possibly, he showed bunt twice though. Good at-bat to get a walk in any case so all is well.

  40. No I didn’t call Anderson TP, at the time I was typing TP was being interviewed and talked about how much work Yunel puts in before the game and that went against how some people were calling him lazy last week.

  41. I just watch that reply again and I still can’t see how anyone can blame Yunel for that play.

    I love Yunel. I don’t understand why people just love to critisize him. I am not talking about us here on Braves Journal. I am referring to DOB and Bowman.

  42. BTW, even Morgan will be hard-pressed to match Karros’ comment from yesterday that Alex Cora was basically like Ozzie Smith with the glove.

  43. Elmer Dessnes Blows

    I hate Joe Morgan, he acts like Grand Slams are such a common Occurence

  44. I don’t either. You can’t swing at a pitch that damn near hits you because you know you couldn’t hit it. Unless you’re Frenchy, in which case you don’t know it.

    Well done, Prado and Chipper.

  45. I did notice that yesterday, Ozzie Smith should never be mentioned in a sentence with Alex Cora, unless you are using it in the terms of Polar Opposites

  46. You know, it’s almost seven CT and it’s just the fifth inning. We’re running the very real chance that this game will delay the ESPY telecast!

  47. Another thing about that Yunel play from yesterday is everybody on TV keeps insisting he missed the sign, has that been confirmed or something? I thought from the way Yunel flinched it was clear he knew the call but also knew he couldn’t hit the ball.

    The thing that really irks me though is how Bobby lied about the pitch after the game and claimed it wasn’t that bad of a pitch.

  48. Its official, Joe Morgan is retarded. An Idiot Savant that baseball player but hopelessly and totally mentally disabled. Good God!

  49. Apparently curveballs from lefthanders are hard for lefthanders to hit because of the change of speed, and not because they are what we call “moving away” from them.

  50. LOL.

    Morgan: That’ll never make any sense to me. You throw him two breaking balls, and then you never show him another one. You should throw one of those down in the dirt when your ahead in the count.

    *replay reveals the pitch McCann golfed to centerfield was indeed a breaking ball on his shoe tops*

    Christ, he’s awful.

  51. You know what’s really weird is that TP is not generally noted as the kind of guy who gets along with everyone, unlike Bobby, but he and Yunel seem simpatico.

  52. Yunel entered the game hitting only .221/.321/.326 against lefties, which is probably why Manuel let the LOOGY face him. I wonder what he’s hit against lefty relievers, though.

    The worst hitting streak in the league continues!

  53. In a way, that’s OK- let Frenchy pretend to provide the Mets with a useful service.

  54. I think Esco is kinda saying “Hit and Run this, Bobby” with the game he’s having tonight.

  55. I’d be interested to see if he ran through a stop sign there. That ball was hit way too hard to even consider trying to score on Stenchy.

  56. Daniel, DOB reported yesterday that Yunel said (through Gonzalez, as Escobar is claiming that he doesn’t speak English even though he does some) that he would answer DOB’s questions when he had three hits. Apparently he thinks (with some justification) that the media only talks to him when he screws up.

  57. Mac-

    While that’s true, it’s also because Yunel makes no effort to answer questions under any circumstances. It doesn’t matter if the questions are positive or negative.

  58. Javy meet run support..run support meet javy..ahhh yeah you two are gonna be great friends

  59. True. But reporters look for quotability. Yunel, obviously, has none because of the language barrier. Therefore, he is only spoken to when he’s the undisputed star of a game or when he makes a bonehead mistake. The second instance seems to happen more than the first, because other hitters have shined in games that Yunel has done well. Tonight, I can promise there will at least be attempts to interview Yunel.

  60. I did’t see the game yesterday, but I saw the replay of the pitch Esco was suppose to swing at…and I am like are you kidding me? The pitch almost hit him.

    Also Garret Anderson still does run well once he get’s started. It’s the lateral movements in the outfield where he has trouble.

  61. Did anybody see Erin Andrews in that dress? Wow. The Florida Gators football/basketball/baseball/golf/lacrosse/track/swimming player’s are some lucky guys.

  62. HEllo, evrybody, joe mORGAN hear, will take ur questions while im brdcastin from Booth.

  63. Gonzo must be feeling better with the mid-90s fastball.

    Nice inning. Bobby, you can safely use Valdez in the 9th.

  64. #122, he should have done the trick the Giants hitters pulled on us a couple of months ago – swing and then stumble until your body is in the way of the catcher’s throw.

  65. Church should hit one of those laser straight fastballs out.

    Why exactly is Soriano warming up?

  66. In case you haven’t heard, a video of a nude Erin Andrews has hit the web. It’s legit–her lawyer has issued a statement on her behalf. It looks like someone worked at a particular hotel and had knowledge of her accommodations and so someone reversed the peephole allowing the video to be taken from the outside. I won’t link to it, but you can find it.

    She’s got a stunning body.

  67. HOW DO YOU USE SORIANO TONIGHT?!!!? I figured Moylan or O Flaherety, but not Soriano?!

  68. Now this is the game to gripe about using Soriano. I’d use Valdez since he figures to be sent down to make room for Hanson.

  69. #130

    Haven’t heard that, thanks for the heads up. That reminds me of that ep of Seinfeld where Kramer and Newman switch their peep holes around and tell Jerry their comfortable with their bodies and if anybody wants to look they can enjoy the show.

  70. “Chipper and those guys”

    Morgan is not familiar with Brian McCann. Surprised?

  71. Please make sure you guys are responding to the correct posts. It gets very confusing.

    I think post 139 was responding to post 131? Not 130? Right?

  72. Only the moronic move of pitchnig your closer with a 6 run lead could dampen a good game.

  73. Maybe Bobby just wanted to reward Soriano with an opportunity to get Jeffrey out too.

  74. At least Soriano only threw 6 pitches… still he shouldn’t be in there.

  75. Why are you guys surprised?? haha as far as I know Bobby Cox is still the manager. Cox is a bullpen killer. Once again another classic example of how Cox doesn’t have the brain capacity to think past the game at hand.

  76. Wow the game ended right on time for the stupid ESPYs.

    Man I want to hear all Bobby Cox’s defenders explain the use of Soriano in a game like tonite.

    Great game by Esco. Can’t wait for the postgame quotes.

  77. I just can’t believe we are using Soriano. Does Bobby think you get extra wins added if you have the top 3 most used pitchers in the majors or something? This is just beyond stupid.

  78. nice tribute here from the Espy’s for the guys who passed away…Skip Caray, Nick Adenhart, Steve McNair and many others

  79. Escobar is our best all-around player and if the guy is traded because he’s not exactly a model teammate and because his manager is sore over his boy Frenchy being traded, then there are big problems.

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