Braves 5, Phillies 4 (10 innings)

Philadelphia Phillies vs. Atlanta Braves – Box Score – June 30, 2009 – ESPN

And Kelly Johnson was never seen again.

Martin Prado basically singlehandedly won this game, going 4-5 with four RBI. In the third, he singled in Blanco to tie the game at 1. In the fifth, he hit a solo homer to tie it at 2. In the eighth, after Gonzalez blew a 3-2 lead, Prado doubled in Blanco from second. And in the tenth, he singled over the head of the playing-in left fielder to score Diaz with the winning run. All in a day’s work.

Derek Lowe apparently doesn’t know how to win. Of course, he left the game leading 3-2, but he utterly failed to keep Gonzalez from giving up two two-out solo homers in the eighth. He went seven, struck out four, walked three, and allowed seven hits, and he didn’t get a whole lot of defensive help. What a loser.

Soriano was his usual self in the ninth. Moylan got a double play in the tenth (Chipper had to make a good play to start it) to get the win… In addition to Blanco still playing for McLouth, Hernandez is still playing for Escobar, who however was able to pinch-hit. It’s a much bigger problem than Blanco, because Hernandez has looked nothing like a major league ballplayer so far… Francoeur sucks, but did have two hits and the Braves’ only non-Prado RBI on a groundout.

134 thoughts on “Braves 5, Phillies 4 (10 innings)”

  1. On the one hand I’m glad we won, on the other we will now be inundated with stories about Jeff’s lucky thong. Nothing’s ever pain free is it?

  2. I’m not ready to give up on Johnson, but he needs to do something to get his swing back. He is almost certainly not the guy who posted a 13% walk rate in 2007, which was the biggest reason he was so valuable back then. At the same time, his BABIP has been .239 year-to-date while for his career it’s closer to .340. At this point, I’m still of the opinion that 2008 KJ is the “real” one. And that’s still a pretty good player.

    But Marin Prado has been pretty good this year. He’s been way better than the KJ we’ve seen and about as good as the KJ I expect to see going forward. So I figure we’re at least in a position where there should be a platoon if not a split that favors Prado. The man’s earned his playing time. No reason not to give it to him.

  3. Re: Poll

    I don’t think that there’s any way that a first baseman is our defensive MVP, even Kotchman. It’s gotta be Escobar, despite his mental blunders, IMO.

  4. Nit. Ram. O. Darp.

    I have a question for the “Cox is an idiot” crowd that shows up here every freaking day. Did he or did he not start Prado against a right-handed pitcher today, and did that or did that not turn out to be the right play?

    As happy as I am for the win today, the negativity here is really starting to make me question whether this place is time well spent for a die-hard Braves fan.

  5. I have said it for a long time, and I hope more of us can realize…let’s just forget about KJ.

  6. haha Mraver do you have a heterosexual crush on KJ? I mean that is the only thing to explain how terrible he is. Stop giving us these nonsense stats. Just watch the guy play. And if you do something as simple as that, you’ll see he’s more of a liability than he is beneficial.

  7. Really, at this point, with all of the offensive problems, Prado needs to be starting over KJ. In addition to hitting the ball better, he’s righthanded which helps. Perhaps with a few days off, KJ can regroup, but if not he certainly would hurt the team less on the bench, while Prado will contribute to some extent, though not likely as good as he was tonight.

  8. 8 — I’ve been a Cox supporter in the past, and calling Bobby an idiot is probably going too far, but I don’t think there’s any question that he makes some bad decisions. There have been seemingly more the past 2 years.

  9. #8

    The fact that Cox has to be congratulated for playing Prado is reason enough to be critical of him. I’m not in the “Cox is an idiot” crowd but I certainly believe he is vastly overrated as a manager. You point to him starting Prado as a check mark in his favor but what about having Prado bunt earlier in the game? What will you say when Johnson is trotted back out there, or when he sends the frenchman back out there game after game until the end of the year?

  10. per DOB….

    Prado won himself a starting job with that effort. Cox said at least for now, he’s the starting 2B. Said he’s hitting the ball too well not to play.

    also, a poster on the ajc blog said that MLB News reported that we’ve signed Geoff Jenkins. ANybody got anything on that? Hopefully Jeffrey is getting moved, if its true

  11. Stop giving us these nonsense stats. Just watch the guy play. And if you do something as simple as that, you’ll see he’s more of a liability than he is beneficial.

    I agree that Prado should be playing, but this is not a good argument against KJ.

  12. I still support Cox as the manager because:

    1. IMO, the net impact he has on the team is still positive
    2. Outside of Fredi, I can’t really think of anyone who I’d want.

    That being said, his bunting fetish and bullpen handling drives me insane.

  13. There’s nothing on the net about us signing Jenkins, and given that he’s 34 years old and put up Francoeurian numbers playing his home games in a bandbox last year…

  14. Critical is one thing. Calling a Hall of Fame manager and someone who’s been a stand-up guy for the Braves organization for most of the last 30 years an idiot is another. I’m guessing nobody who spews that garbage here has ever had to manage a staff of employees in any field — or if they have, they were piss-poor at it.

  15. Speaking for myself, if we’d lost I wouldn’t have read the game thread in the vain hope of seeing a little celebration and credit where credit is due.

  16. Jeff Francoeur’s underwear just got on sportscenter. Complete with turkey sound effects.

  17. Sweet jesus… sportscenter is currently running a turkey-underwear themed recap. Complete with turkey gobling sound bites.

  18. Was it last year when the Yankees had that slump busting yellow thong? I seem to remember weeks on weeks of coverage about that. Whose thong was it anyways? I’m assuming A-Rod.

  19. so, would the cardinals take francoeur and kj for ludwick? when infante comes back, someone will have to go and what better way to do it than a 2 for 1 deal to get our worst players out of a braves uniform.
    btw, boone logan, mike gonzalez, and eric o’flaherty out of the pen? lefties dont have a chance. sell high on one?

  20. Okay, I just explained to my girlfriend about Francouer and his turkey underpants. The first thing she said was, “Why do we know this?”

  21. If jeff keeps going 2-5 in wins everynight I will buy some turkey underwear and wear it OUTSIDE my pants.

    Wouldn’t it be something if something stupid like the turkey underwear loosened everybody up got them going ??? Dumber things have happened. It must be nice to open the paper and have SOMETHING POSITIVE said about you, no matter how assinine it may be. Maybe frenchy relaxes and won’t suck so hard.

    I am NOT taking up for Jeff, but he has been DECENT since about the start of interleague play, minus some Boston games. KJ, Diory, and Chipper (12 for his last 66 by my count) have been the big holes in the offensive boat for most of the last 20 games.

    It shows how bad he has been that DECENT = Hope.

  22. So the Phillies have the best road record in the majors.

    Hmmm…let me think here…lousy pitching staff plus hitter-friendly park…EUREKA!! Are you kidding me?

    The Phils better thank their lucky stars they catch the ball when it is inside the park. They will go nowhere, barring substantial pitching improvement (along the lines of Lazarus-level improvement; similar to what the Braves need offense-wise)

    Gonzo- forget it and continue to pitch the same.

    While we all complain about Bobby Cox…at least we don’t have Charlie Manuel. IMO, Manuel is a bum that somehow caught lightning in a bottle last year. It is also surprising to me, given his reputation in the Japanese league, that the Phils haven’t signed any significant Japanse talent.

    The Braves may not make the playoffs (certainly a stretch at this point), but I’d love to make sure the Phils don’t win the division this year.

  23. Jeff’s numbers are bad for the season, the last 30 days, the last 15 days, and the last 7 days. Look them up, he still sucks and is creating a black hole out there.

    However, he went 2-5 today and Ill say that he did his job tonight

  24. Oh, and Chip Caray’s excitement when the opposition hits a home run…and he and Joe Simpson’s continual talk about Skip’s Georgia crowd shot comments are almost criminal (possibly torture according to the Geneva Convention).

    If Chip is going to be a TBS baseball play-by-play guy, then he needs to stick to that. Otherwise, he needs to be a homer like his father was. Then again, asking that twatt to be anything like his father is like asking my beagle to read Green Eggs and Ham to my 3 wk old daughter.

  25. Logan in the bullpen is definately an upgrade over Bennett, hell, Jeff’s dirty Turkey Underwear is an upgrade over Bennett. Logan has some pretty nasty looking stuff.

    You have to have at least 2 lefties in the pen in this division because there is so much LH power in the Division. It provides tons of flexibliltiy for Cox, and again, Logan is not Bennett which is an improvement.

    Prado may not be the best 2b or anything, but him starting at second helps on two big levels

    1. It gets Yunel out from in front of Chipper, and
    2. It balances the lineup RH v. LH batters.

  26. I’m glad to see Prado get his shot and I hope he runs with it. The only problem I see — and one reason I believe it’s taken Cox this long to pull the trigger, aside from expecting a patented KJ hot streak — is that KJ is not a particularly helpful bench player. The only positions he can play are 2B and LF, and with apologies to Blanco’s efforts in CF, we already have two left-handed left fielders.

  27. IM just wondering how many times Bobby will take Prado’s and Chippers bats out of the game with more sac bunts

  28. i have a pair of turkey underwear from the gap, i shit you not. should i send them to francoeur’s address so he’ll have 2?

  29. Tiger224,

    Not that I’m attacking you in anyway (so please don’t take offense), but why do you think that Charlie Manuel is such a bad manager? He was pretty good as a hitting coach in Cleveland (they led the league in runs scored three times (out of a possible 8 seasons), and has never finished a season below .525 as a manager (other than when he was cut short in the middle of the 2002 season). As a manager, he has finished first in his division three times, second in his division three times, and was third in his division only once (again, when left in the middle of the 2002 season). In a full season, he has never finished worse than second in his division.

    He also has a lifetime .542 winning percentage. Comments can be made about not having signed Japanese players, but I think he is doing pretty good for himself without them. He also guided the Phillies to their second world series in their history.

    BTW, it always surprises me when I see that Connie Mack is 230 games below .500 as a manager.

  30. I need Braves Journal nation’s help. Can somebody either give me the link or tell me what the win expectancy was for tonight’s Red Sox-Orioles game when the Sox were up 10-1 in the 7th ? I would greatly appreciate it.

  31. sdp, thanks for the help, I saw that graph, but I was trying to figure out the exact figure (e.g. 0.00XXXXX percent)

  32. Mac, that video was hilarious! On another note, I had to leave after the Utley homerun and came back to my hotel room to find that the Braves had won in 10 innings. About when I feel this is hopeless the Braves seem to do something that keeps me hanging on. Mmm… perhaps that should be the video for the next game thread!

  33. I rather like Charlie Manuel too. He rarely walks guys intentionally, hits and runs, and bunts.

    But whatever, the managerial impact is ultimately minimal. Baseball teams win and lose on their talent. It’s only when a team lacks talent that fans have to spend so much time focusing on the manager’s vain attempts to sway the outcome of the game. That ism ubless he plays for one in the 3rd inning.

  34. bonitis, thank you very much, you da man. That game, kids, is why betting on baseball games is always fun. Oh wait no it’s not.

  35. Geoff Jenkins would be a good signing. I’d bet he’s still better than Francoeur and Anderson, probably around league average. Edmonds would be even better if he’s still looking to play.

    I’d thought about Edmonds, but I figured he’s just retired. I hadn’t thought about Jenkins, though. I actually kind of like him as a one year.

    Our outfield is so abysmal that even borderline-retired once-good players are almost certainly better than anyone but McLouth. We could find space for both of them in the starting lineup, which is kind of crazy.

  36. “2. Outside of Fredi, I can’t really think of anyone who I’d want.”

    I don’t get the Fredi love. What has he done as a manager that would make anyone think he would be an upgrade on Bobby? In a game against the Rays last week, I watched him *intentionally walk* Dioner Navarro to load the bases to get to the scorching hot BJ Upton WITH TWO OUTS in a TIE GAME in the eight inning. Upton promptly hit a 3-run double off the wall in right center.

  37. Of course, Barry Bonds would be the mack daddy aging star signing, but the front office doesn’t have the balls for it.

  38. @49 – because no good manager makes a game time decision that backfires on them. Must be stupid if it didn’t work! I didn’t see the play, so I can’t comment on it, but you are kinda over-generalizing there.

  39. ask yourself this: on this website, it seems uniform that we all think kj had 15-20 hr potential. the way prado has been driving the ball lately, he could very well hit 15 homeruns, if given a full season at 2nd. just food for thought. do you think it’s possible we might have a little power stump taking over at 2nd.

  40. I always though KJ could hit over 20 homers. I don’t think Prado will ever have that kind of power. But if he keeps hitting like he has this year (and last), the Braves should be just fine with him at 2nd. Problem is that we are starved for power, and we will lose some with him at 2nd, but he definately deserves his shot.

  41. Prado never hit more than 5 home runs at any level in the minors. His career minor league slugging percentage is .393. I think the odds are pretty slim that he’d ever hit 15 home runs in a season.

    @51
    It was an example I thought I’d bring up. I guess I don’t get the Fredi love. I see nothing in his resume that would indicate he would be an upgrade on Bobby — or would even be a better manager than any number of coaches currently in the Braves system.

    Nobody can win with replacement level players at best in LF, RF and 1B.

  42. Even though I killed myself after I first read about his undies, know that the bullet was not a direct hit. And even though we won, I’m still over here suffering…not from the hole in my head or our miserable position in the standings, but still from the knowledge, that somewhere Jeffy is sleeping in an Elvis sized bed with that hot, dumb wife of his…in his Turkey fuckin underwear. Seriously, I can’t bleed out fast enough. Someone get over here and finish me off.

    I can’t even bring myself to photoshop this awful development in the Francouer saga, for fuck sake.

  43. Jeremy, I am not saying you are 100% wrong, but you go check out Hanley’s minor league stats and see if you see a 30-HR hitting shortstop in those stats.

  44. Seriously, I’m thinking of skipping work indefinitely and attending every game at Turner Field to sit in right field and yell at the top of my lungs disturbingly scathing insults at this queef playing right field for our team until they trade or cut him….or until he cries or has a melt.

    I’ve thought about it so many times over the past few years, and I know I shouldn’t root against the Braves, but honestly, at this point, I dunno if I have any other choice. This douchebag is literally taking years off of my life with his shit like his turkey fucking underwear and sub .300 OBP.

  45. @49

    I never said I was for Fredi to replace Bobby right now. I just said if Bobby were gone, Fredi would me my first choice to be his successor.

    I think that he has done a good job with a young Marlins team. His players seem to respect/respond to him. That’s probably the most important thing for a manager. Just my opinion.

    And while you can always can always cherry pick decisions that backfired in hindsight, I personally haven’t seen anything from when the Braves have played the Marlins that I found outrageous. In any case, I think that part of managing is a little overrated. I mean, some of Bobby’s bullpen/bunting decisions piss me off, but you live with it because his players want to play for him and respect him. After living in Kansas City for the past 7 years, I can tell you firsthand that this is not always the case…and you can tell when that happens pretty easily both on and off the field.

  46. Are any of you Bravesjournaler’s hit men, by chance?

    Because right now, I’d pay a pretty penny to have turkey pants whacked.

  47. @60

    How does that help us? (other than the obvious addition by subtraction of Frenchy)

  48. So I wanted to run a trade possibility by a group of smart fans. See what you guys think of this:

    Javy Vazquez to Texas for Hamilton or Nelson Cruz. I’m trying to decide if this is one of those “Jo-Jo for ARod!” kind of silly posts that you see on team boards, or if it’s actually a deal that could help both teams. Javy’s been one of the top NL pitchers this year (top 5, I’d say), with any run support he’d have 8-9 victories. The Texas offense, while not great without Hamilton, has still been okay, and they’re scoring enough to win with any pitching. Anyway, anybody think this makes sense? Or am I smoking something? Does Texas hang up the phone giggling if the Braves make this offer?

    In a followup move, Wren could move Francoeur and a minor league arm to KC for Mark Teahen. He could take over at 2B, freeing up Martin to keep bringing the utility heat, and also play the outfield as necessary.

    Anyway– two moves, two holes plugged. If I’m not crazy. Am I?

  49. 75, remember that number because it’s exactly how long it took Bobby Cox to pull his head out of his ass and remove KJ from the regular line up. Now, if we could only convince Cox to do the same with Francoeur……when and if hell freezes over first :)

  50. The Mets were wise to pick up Gary Sheffield for nothing in spring training. He has above a .900 OPS and leads their team in homers.

    The Mets’ offense kind of reminds me of our pitching staff from last year. It’s like only David Wright is immune to injury. I think we’re better than them right now, at least until they get Beltran, Reyes, and Delgado back.

  51. Also, looking at the other teams in the division…if we had any positive hitting at all from 1b, 2b and RF we’d be leading the division right now.

    The Phillies can’t pitch. The Mets can’t hit and don’t have a whole lot of pitching.

    The Marlins may be the division favorite from this point forward, especially if Nolasco and Miller keep pitching well in addition to Johnson and Volstad. That’s not even including Anibal when he gets healthy. Their offense is good with Hanley, Cantu, Ross, Uggla and Hermida. The bullpen is solid with Nunez, Calero, Dan Meyer (who has been outstanding). Pinto and Badenhop.

  52. Just for grins, here is the OPS for June (Source Braves.com)

    Prado (his is approx, they two sets for stats for him): .918
    McCann: .872
    Ache: .804
    Chipper: .801
    McLouth: .771
    Diaz: .693
    Franceour: .684
    Yunel: .665
    KJ: .396 (WOW thats bad)

    I thought it was worth a peek. Other than McCann and Prado no one really knocked the cover off the ball. It confirms what we all know, the braves have a terrible offense. It also underscores the fact that Diaz has not exactly WON any job either. (Neither has Jeff, which seems to be the rub on the blog here.) If Diaz wants to play, he needs to pull a Prado and TAKE the job.

  53. Oh, I left off the Kotchrocket

    His OPS .566

    NL average OPS from ESPN during Mets and Yankees on Sunday Night: .737

  54. Dioner Navarro is worse than Francoeur this year. And BJ Upton is BJ Upton. In any situation it would be a bad move to walk Navarro. If there was 1 out you pitch to Navarro then walk Upton if anything, but walking someone with a lower OWP than Francoeur is a no-no.

  55. I think taking shots at Francouer’s wife is sort of crossing the line. How do you know she’s dumb? (I know, I know because she married Jeffy.) It’s sort of like taking shots at the children of presidents that we don’t like.

    I expect negativity when the team is struggling–it’s the blogosphere for god’s sake–but it is just a game and there really is no reason to get into personal attacks against third parties, including each other.

  56. can someone please dig up some more stats to confirm what we already know? i live for stats.

  57. @72 – People can say whatever they want, but it only matters if you bring attention to it. I had completely overlooked that comment until you referenced it.

    Anyway, it’s the internet. Baseless insults are as common as site pimping. No one cares.

    I can’t shake that Geoff Jenkins thought, and that June OPS list just reinforces it. Random over-the-hill outfielders are better than what we have at two of the three outfield slots. They need a job, and we need a .750-.770 OPS for a year.

  58. @74 – Better than 1 outfielder we have. People on here don’t realize that ACHE has been doing pretty good with the bat as of late. Of course a little leaguer could do better for us on defense, but I’m sure that’s not what you are complaining about. While the power numbers aren’t there for him now, he has to have been at least league average for the last month now (or am I wrong on that – sorry, I don’t have stats).

  59. Yeah, he’s been pretty good for the last month. Better than average for that span.

  60. I’d give Uncle Garrett’s Sleepytime Jamboree its due propers if he showed any inclination that he gave a crap in the field.

  61. prado hitting well really extends our lineup, and should give kotchman a little kick in the pants. when infante comes back, i could easily see infante at 2nd and prado at first, especially against lefties.

    also, escobar hit well the other night in the 5 hole, and i would like to see what he could do there on a regular basis. thanks to prado, i have hope once more.

  62. From Buster Olney:

    Yunel Escobar started on the bench for the fourth straight game, largely because of injury and perhaps also because of the team’s frustration with him, as David O’Brien writes. Heard this: The Braves are willing to trade Escobar for a good hitter right now.

    Wonder what’s considered a “good” hitter. Here comes Omar Infante, Everyday SS…

  63. to give ACHE (or Uncle Garrett’s Sleepytime Jamboree) its due:

    For June:
    Avg: .306
    OBP: .333
    Slg: .471
    OPS: .804

    which is pretty good… better than McLouth’s June.

  64. I gotta say that the ’09 Braves are a sub-.500 team & they’re kinda boring. The ’09 Mets are a sub-.500 team & they’re spectacular.

    Sometimes bad play & bad luck can make a great cocktail.

    Listening last night to the latest meltdown inning was high comedy. The Mets really are inventing ways to lose that I hadn’t previously considered.

    I’ll assume that there’s a Mets blog with a poll asking: What has been the defining play of the Mets’ season?

    A. Ryan Church missing 3rd base, blowing the Dodgers game.
    B. Luis Castillo dropping a pop-up, blowing the Yankees game.
    C. F-Mart missing a fly ball & doing a faceplant, helping to blow the Brewers game.

    Tough call, I say.

  65. I hope they don’t trade him, at least not yet. It’s hard to find a good shortstop and the Braves don’t have anyone in the organization. I think it’s still worth trying to work with him; for all his knuckleheadedness, he is still one of the best players on the team. The Braves traditionally have adopted the approach that “if you don’t act the way we like, you are gone.” That was ok when they were really good and could afford to dispose of usable players but I don’t think they are in any position to do that now. Of course, it would depend on whom they got in return but I suspect teams would try to get him cheap, figuring the Braves are fed up.

  66. Stu, that just doesnt make sense to me. We have no good replacements for Yunel and he’s under team control for a lot longer than Bobby will be here. Why trade one of our best hitters for a good hitter? Yunel can net a big package in my opinion and if they move him thats what it should be for

  67. I sure hope we don’t trade Yunel… for our financial situation I can’t think of another SS we could replace him with.

  68. Maybe Prado can get in Yesco’s ear a little bit more now that he’s playing next to him, or at least provide an example of what it looks like to be “in the game”. Prado exudes a positive and energetic vibe on the field, and while that in itself doesn’t necessarily translate to victories, he’s a breath of fresh air to our increasingly joyless assemblage.

  69. I just noticed on Yahoo that Chipper had been asking Cox for a day off for each of the last 9 days because he was just exhausted, but Bobby didn’t feel he could. Hopefully the day off rested him enough to get back into his game.

  70. I dont mind Infante at SS full time, if we get a legit power hitter. Frenchy as a 5th outfielder would be ok…..

  71. Ububba at 81,

    B- no doubt about it. For one, I foresee that I shall be bringing that play up on MLB media for stress-relief for at least another, say, 20-30 years. Also, doing that against the Yankees- in the bottom of the ninth, with two outs, against Alex Rodriguez- is probably only second to doing it against Ryan Howard and the Phillies.

  72. 1.) Glad to see Prado in there. Just what Sansho1 said, he brings a positive vibe. They show him on the bench, he’s trying to pick guys up. You see him in the batter’s box and he seems excited to be there. That’s a change from the Braves’ business-as-usual, and I think it’s welcome. Plus he’s producing. Which is kind of the point, right, Kelly?

    2.) I only see Esco being moved if it’s part of a string of moves. Esco for stud pitching prospect, Vazquez for established corner outfielder + young shortstop with upside. Barring that, I don’t see how the Braves can move him.

  73. Unless you get a similarly cost-controlled OF (and presumably dump Frenchy to boot), I don’t see the point of moving Escobar. He’s one of the better hitters on the club, and he plays strong defense at the toughest position on the diamond. And even though he gives a lot of that back by making bone-headed plays, he’d be really, really tough to replace.

    And it’s not like there’s any organizational depth at SS anymore. So I don’t get that move.

  74. If we dump Esco and get an all glove SS in return plus a legit OF I can see it.

    I dont like Esco because his antics make a bad team worse, on a winning team he is just a fool, on a bad team he is a cancer.

    I do like Esco because hit is a very good hitter and a very good fielder, not great though, too stupid to be great.

  75. No. Bruce is rapidly approaching Francoeur 2.0 status. I wouldn’t give up on him yet, but the Braves don’t need another guy who might be good in two years.

  76. So, if Leo was a little more like McDowell perhaps we’d still have Jason Marquis?

    Hell, put him in RF on the days he’s not pitching – net offensive upgrade.

    I’d love Hamilton (if only for his testimony), but I think he’s found a home in Texas. But it would be tempting for both clubs, wouldn’t it?

  77. He’s not Francoeur; he’ll take a walk.

    Speaking of the Reds, I wonder what it would take to pluck Jonny Gomes from them. He’s hardly seeing the field, but the dude can rake. Are injuries his problem?

    Who blinks? Escobar, Gonzo & Diaz for Kemp & Furcal.

  78. I wouldnt do Schafer in that deal, but I dont know that the Tigers would do it without him. Maybe throw in Frenchy and an A ball arm, maybe.

  79. Nah, we are still stuck with Francouer and KJ.
    We need to find similar struggling players to swap, Bruce makes some sense if they were dumb enough to believe Frenchy and his Turkey jock strap could get better with a change of scenery.

  80. No way the Tigers are trading Granderson without getting Schafer (at least) in return. Their OF is pretty terrible. They probably wouldn’t do it even with Schafer included.

  81. We really should not have traded for Teixeria. Giving up Elvis Andrus was a bad idea. I’m thinking Francouer and Escobar might be out soon enough. For who though? We need long term help in both places. I really liked what Escobar did last year though. :/

  82. Let’s cool down on calling Jay Bruce Francoeur 2.0. He’s a lot more similar to KJ this year, with a batting average badly depressed by a .205 BABIP, except that he has 18 homers. He takes a walk and has lots of power, and he’s only 22. That’s all better than Frenchy.

  83. Prado is only 25 so there is certainly room for improvement. He’s lived on under-exposure to RHP and lucky BABIP when he does face them. I feel like he’s gotten a lot better with the glove this season.

  84. Kind of sad to see what’s happening to KJ, but very good for Prado.

    In regards to Esco, on the Phillies broadcast they had a reaction shot of Cox after Yunel didn’t run hard to first in his pitch hit appearance last night and it was not pretty. He turned around, shouted something to someone and gave Yunel a very unpleasant stare.

  85. Get real, people. The Tigers are not going to trade their starting centerfielder in the middle of a pennant race. You sound like the Pirates fans who thought that the Braves would trade Marcus Giles plus to get Kristin Benson.

  86. Yeah, probably. That deal would make them better in 2009, though. Yunel + Diaz > Granderson + Everett.

    We could always toss in Gonzo.

    Just trying to figure out some deals that wouldn’t make me absolutely hate giving up on Yunel, which it seems like we’re soon to do. There aren’t many I can think of that are even close to realistic.

  87. if yunel is traded and omar becomes our everyday ss, our defense (if not already) will be the worst in the majors.

  88. …and I think (hope) the Braves know this, which is why I think (hope) you’d see a defensive-minded SS in the return package for Yunel or acquired in a separate deal. (Francoeur for Jack Wilson?)

  89. What about matching up with the Brewers again? It would be separate trade(s) later to see what “good hitter” they get for Escobar. The Brewers top prospect according to Baseball America is a shortstop at AAA Nashville, Alcides Escobar. Hes got a .294 average; .409 slugging; .339 on base; for a .748 OPS.
    They supposedly haven’t traded him or brought him up because they are still trying to determine if they want to extend J.J. Hardy who’s making 4.5 mil and a free agent in 2011.

    Vazquez for Alcides plus additional prospects?

  90. Seriously, neither Kemp nor Granderson are touchable. But if we give Escobar away for nothing that would probably be the final straw between me and the Braves for awhile–or at least until Bobby Cox is gone.

    EDIT: I do, however, like the idea of talking to Milwaukee. They have a few intriguing prospects who are blocked.

  91. I wasn’t advocating trading Yunel. Just looking for a fit if management decided to do so.

  92. Hmmm…is Prado developing some power?

    He was largely a singles hitter throughout his minor league career, wasn’t he?

  93. I will concede to Sam Hutcheson and / or others that Martin Prado, Slugging Second Baseman/ Third Baseman / First Baseman / Emergency Shortstop IS 1 position player other than McCann that has improved his game as the aging curve suggests in the post 2000 era.

    Parish,

    Yes. Prado has never hit more than 5 homers in a minor league season and has 4 now. He doesn’t hit monster shots, but there are a lot of “base of the wall / off the wall” doubles too. I think he can be a legit 280/ 350/ 450 hitter over the next few years.

    And Prado has gotten better in the field. Not Good, but better.

  94. It’s amazing to me that as badly as we’ve played we are 4 games back with a chance to cut it to 2 after this series. I don’t expect a sweep, but as poorly as the Phillies have been playing, 2 out of 3 is a very reachable goal.

  95. I wouldn’t mind trading Esco for a power bat in the outfield. I don’t think Infante would be too bad a replacement. Besides, Yunel isn’t just pissing off Bobby, he is pissing off alot of players in the clubhouse (according to DOB). If that is the case, it would be better that we were rid of him. Of course, we wouldn’t just get a bucket of balls for him – the guy will have some major trade value.

  96. I wasn’t advocating trading Yunel. Just looking for a fit if management decided to do so.

    Same here.

    Hell, let’s sweep ‘em, get a bat & make this season a whole lot more interesting.

    Agreed!

  97. Anybody else like Blanco at the top of the lineup.

    Blanco
    Prado
    Chipper
    McCann
    Escobar
    McLouth
    Diaz
    Kotchman
    Pitcher

    Eh. Ain’t the ’27 Yankees, but a little speed, a little power, decent OPS. Until a better day …

  98. if anybody gets mlb network, the 1993 season is on focusing on atlanta and san fran. good stuff.

  99. “Eh. Ain’t the ‘27 Yankees, but a little speed, a little power, decent OPS. Until a better day …”

    I’m afraid it’s more like the ’67 Yankees.

  100. @117: In the minor leagues, Prado was your textbook singles hitter. He had 576 hits in his minor-league career–only 127 were for extra bases.

    However, he’s only hit four homers this year and has seven in his major league career. If he goes on a tear and ends the season with 15+ homers, then I’ll raise my nose up.

  101. (Caveat: I don’t want to trade Escobar)

    I’m not very good at trade scenarios, but how about Escobar and Frenchy to the Red Sox for Lugo, Baldelli, and Josh Reddick? Think they’d do that?

  102. @128: They really like Reddick but I don’t see him being any more effective than Jacoby Ellsbury. But I think they do that deal. However, I want no part of Lugo’s contract.

  103. sansho1 Says:
    June 30th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
    …I have a question for the “Cox is an idiot” crowd that shows up here every freaking day. Did he or did he not start Prado against a right-handed pitcher today, and did that or did that not turn out to be the right play?

    sansho1 Says:
    June 30th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
    Critical is one thing. Calling a Hall of Fame manager and someone who’s been a stand-up guy for the Braves organization for most of the last 30 years an idiot is another. I’m guessing nobody who spews that garbage here has ever had to manage a staff of employees in any field — or if they have, they were piss-poor at it.

    Let’s break down this incisive argumentation.

    Did he or did he not start Prado against a right-handed pitcher today, and did that or did that not turn out to be the right play?

    That move is about as obvious as getting Chipper Jones as many at bats as possible. Mangagers cannot do a whole lot to help a team win but one of the very few things that does matter is discerning which players are good and which are not and playing the good ones the most frequently. Cox has shown a consistent inability to do this (Lockhart over Giles, Reitsma and Kolb ahead of Devine, Juan Cruz, et. al. ; Jeff Francoeur ahead of basically anyone(We can do as far down this route as you like)).

    Critical is one thing. Calling a Hall of Fame manager and someone who’s been a stand-up guy for the Braves organization for most of the last 30 years an idiot is another.

    I’m sure you’ll define the inexact term “stand-up guy” in whatever way serves to make your point but I’d hardly call a wife beater a stand up guy.

    I’m guessing nobody who spews that garbage here has ever had to manage a staff of employees in any field — or if they have, they were piss-poor at it.

    Nice appeal to authority. I’ve always felt that the best arguments tend to include one of the basic logical fallacies. I assume that you do “manage a staff of employees” and judge yourself to be the BEST MANAGER EVAR which qualifies you to be the decider on this issue.

  104. Yunel is one of the few Braves I actually want to see hit. He’s still somewhat young and as far as being a major leaguer, he’s very young. Plus he escaped from his country, so he has to get a little slack there. I hope the Braves keep him.

    With the Braves pitching, if only Francouer could provide a just little power this team could be very interesting.

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