96 thoughts on “Young Master Francoeur game thread: June 17, Braves at Reds”

  1. From last thread:

    they’d (Red Sox) be dealing pitching surplus which we don’t really need.

    Well, we could use the surplus pitching if we trade Vasquez for an OF and/or middle infielder.

  2. This is what scares me, trading, to add at this point is useless. We have NO POWER. Which hurts, we cant single in 8 runs.

    ITs like being in debt, and getting a new credit card and just transferring the debt, and possibly taking on a higher interest rates.

    We need to sit pat, or sell, this is not a championship team, we need a big bat, otherwise, you can forget it this season.

  3. Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’m not talking about trading Esco and Javy with the intent to compete this year. I’ve already given up on ’09. I mean, we are struggling against the likes of Cinci, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh (after they gave us their best player).

    Hopefully after the BOS/NYY/BOS/CHC/PHI stretch, the FO will see the writing on the wall and start thinking about the future of the franchise.

  4. per Carroll, same as yesterday

    1. McLouth CF
    2. Escobar SS
    3. C. Jones 3B
    4. McCann C
    5. Anderson LF
    6. Kotchman 1B
    7. Francoeur RF
    8. Johnson 2B
    9. Vazquez P

    Hey Matty, I like you more when you play

  5. What has been our record since Infante went down?

    It seems like he was the lynchpin that made this offense work. Sure, it kept KJ from getting PA’s…which certainly helps.

    I’d love to see him hitting leadoff, with McLouth batting 2nd…and Diaz playing RF…with Frenchy being benched.

  6. Chipper is the Kinks??..it seems to me that almost every song by Kinks(the most blatently British of the 60’s invasion bands) has at least one line thats WAY wittier than anything i’ve heard from Chipper.

  7. Losing Chipper would be the biggest hit I’ve taken as a fan since Aaron left for Milwaukee in ’75. (Yes, I am old, why do you ask?) But honestly, at this point in his career, Chipper really should be a DH somewhere. His fielding has slipped lately, and it would let him play a lot more games and probably stay healthier. Given that this season is almost certainly beyond redemption, we probably should put him on the market (if he would go) and see if we could get something in return. Selfishly I hope it doesn’t happen, but it might be better for both him and the team.

  8. The tough thing with Chipper: his injury history and the current economics of baseball. Even the Yanks are claiming they are unable to add payroll right now. (wow!)

    I’m not opposed to moving Chipper…but only if it is one step of many in what should be a big reorganization of the franchise. Moving him just to save money is for the birds.

  9. Or we re-visit the “Chipper-to-first-base” conversation.

    But if the Braves aren’t going to dump their lousy rightfielder—perhaps because he’s “popular”—why would they trade their one last playing link to the good years?

  10. I don’t think Chipper is going anywhere.

    Mac a poll? Do we tear down and rebuild or are we just 3 players short?

  11. ububba,
    i know that it’s almost a forbidden topic to discuss, but chipper has played a lousy 3rd base thus far. not for health purposes, but for defensive purposes, i think he’s going to have to make the transition within a few years, freeman or not. unless, the organization is cool with 30-40 errors per year from a 3rd baseman with poor range. he’s made 10 this year and his fielding percentage is an atrocious .910.

  12. I also don’t think Chipper is going anywhere. He specifically stated when he signed his extension that he wanted to be a Brave for the rest of his career. Even if the Braves were going to trade him, they’d have to ask for his consent because he is a 10/5 man.

  13. ryan c,
    I hear you.

    Last night’s error was kind of weird and a little debatable—Gonzo got in his way & I thought KJ might’ve held the bag at 1B—but no, he ain’t been good out there.

    Still, IMO our lineup issues are larger than Chipper’s defensive deficiencies.

    Little power (even in a best-case scenario), a dramatic fall-off at 2B and the continued disintegration in RF. To steal a term from Nick Lowe, this is pure pop-gun.

  14. I really dont think Chipper should ever be traded. He has been the face of the franchise, he has done everything for the franchise, and seeing Smoltz and co leave was hard enough, Chipper should retire a brave.

    I pray now, at night, right after the health of family and friends…for the trading of Frenchy

  15. #20, or a prison jumpsuit for aggravated assault on the playoff hopes of Braves’ fans.

  16. Chipper’s not going anywhere unless Chipper wants to. Or if he still wants to play after he’s 40 but the Braves don’t think he can hack it in the field. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go to the AL and DH for a few years in his early 40s. The man can flat out hit.

  17. The Chipper trade talk is mute now that we gave him that extension. Even if he agreed to be traded I don’t think anyone takes on his contract now because he would basically be a DH.

    And while I’m posting I want to say that I think some of Escobar’s fielding trouble is because he plays between two below average defensive players who have very little range. That’s got to weigh on you.

  18. The Chipper trade talk is making me throw up in my mouth. Please, for the love of all humanity, stop.

  19. amen on the orange ububba……..and i think the kinks were at their best in the late 60’s and early 70’s………..i just got inspired to listen to the Muswell Hillbillies cd for the first time in forever ……..the woods are rockin’…….the braves are on their own.

  20. I use to hat the ‘Chipper to first’ argument. However, with the hole that has been in his glove this year, I am not against it.

    Kotchman for DeRosa?

  21. So KJ follows Schafer and Francoeur in not looking for swing help from the hitting coach, but from Chipper.

    What’s the point of our hitting coach, exactly?

  22. just for the people with no live feed, garrett did not beat that out. the ball was missed by the first baseman.

  23. re: 27 on Muswell Hillbillies

    Great album…

    ..Yo La Tengo do an excellemt, excellent rendition of “Oklahoma U.S.A.” on their acoustic cover album “Fakebook.” A favorite track of mine over the years…

  24. boy, tavares really botched that, then proceeds to jog to the ball. if that doesnt call for benching, then there’s no hope for the dignity of baseball.

    what the hell has happened to kelly johnson? he needs some therapy.

  25. I think I hate Kelly Johnson.

    Methinks his job is only safe until Infante comes back.

  26. i hate francoeur for getting stranded at 3rd. the bastard should have stolen home. idiot!

  27. just wanted to chime in for the 1000th time and say how much Kelly Johnson sucks. Cut him already and play prado everyday at 2nd

  28. #34……….thx, i’ll check out that cover. beautiful little tune. always nice to know someones tuned into the same obscure stuff as me……oh. the braves are playing?

  29. so, why does bobby choose to not start the runners on a 3-2 count with mccann batting against a guy that doesnt have a strikeout on the night?
    answer: he’s a fucking idiot.

  30. Let’s trade for Owings, and make him our left-fielder. Seriously, he’d hit fifth in our line-up!

  31. 55–yeah maybe last summer’s rumored deal of Tex to AZ would have been the better one to do

    this team is painful to watch–yuck

  32. Great. Get home for work, turn on the TV just in time to watch Micah kill the Braves again….

  33. lost it? 4 hits, 2 bb and on 69 pitches. Don’t take your frustration with the offense out on the pitcher. I’m sure he’s just as po’d as the rest of us

  34. I dont feel anyone is taking it out on the pitcher, we just dont have confidence we can score 5 runs.

    EDIT, just saw what you were referring too, i agree.

  35. Man…what up with KJ? I think this maybe the worse I have ever seen him. I admit, I have never been a big fan, but this is getting sad.

  36. Usually I would agree, but HR’s are Vazquez’s issue, and if you let the other pitcher hit a HR, you deserve whatever happens.

  37. the “newly” new and improved jeff francoeur, who out of his 2 year slump, is now hitting a whopping .260 in june with 2 extra base hits. his obp is an incredible .330. i am so glad that he is coming around….sigh.

  38. #59 – I never said Javy wasn’t good up to that point, but have you ever watched any of his starts before? When he loses it, he really loses it and most times it’s best to get him out right then. He’s proving otherwise right now, but this is a rare occasion.

    I honestly don’t know how you inferred that I was taking a shot at him in my post, just going off of 10 years of watching the guy.

  39. #65 sorry man, it is just frustrating as a fan to see a guy go up there and pitch what should be considered a gem or at least a pretty good start but with just about no margin for error because of the offense behind him.
    Clearly though, he has not yet lost it. agreed?

  40. Don is clearly fed up with Francoeur:

    “Francoeur has now seen 5 86 or 87 mile an hour fastballs in a row and has been unable to put one of them into play.”

  41. so, i have vazquez in my fantasy league and “cg” is one of the stats. if we lose and he pitches all innings, do i get credit for a “cg”?

  42. Late to the thread. Been watching though. We suck. Chipper and McCann cant execute with men in scoring position. Vazquez gives up a 3 run hr to the damn pitcher. The freaking Groundhog gets a hit putting him in RF into the 2010 season. and KJ can’t hit his way out of a whore house.

  43. difference in the game:
    there bottom 4 in the lineup: 4 for 10 2 hr 4 rbis 4 runs
    1 bb 0 left on base

    our bottom 4 in the lineup: 2 for 14 0 hr 0 rbis 0 runs 0 bb
    6 left on base

    jon k, you make no sense. go play with chief nocahoma in a ditch somewhere.

    mac, thanks for the clarification.

  44. KJ has zero trade value, and hasn’t done anything to prove he is a starting 2B. I suppose we should just keep him around until be plumets his avg down to .200?

  45. Micah Owings is hardly a normal pitcher at the plate, he pinch hits most games and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him run out as DH in an AL park. And that would have been a sac fly in probably 26 of the major league parks.

    Vazquez has had a very good start, considering it’s him in Cincinnati. We have had ample opportunities to pick him up and have failed.

    Also, Kelly has to have been the worst everyday player in the majors these past few weeks.

  46. ryan c Says:

    yes, jon. we should just cut kelly johnson. that is a ridiculous statement.

  47. We have held onto KJ for for too long… now we are in a position were we are getting zero production from him, which results in him having no trade value, and to top it off he’s making almost 3 million this year. I’ve said it all season, as long as kelly johnson is our 2B this team will continue to suck

  48. oldtimer,
    no one. jon k is delusional. i said it was a bad idea to “cut” kelly and he comes back with his #73 post.

  49. Braves 0-fer w/ men in scoring position tonight. Again. Damn shame that Vasquez is 4-6.

  50. No one said to cut all of them oldtimer… francoeur at least brings some asset to his game which is his arm out in RF. Granted I think Francoeur has worn out his welcome but let’s be honest here… KJ is just an all around bad player. Every aspect of his game is below average (Fielding, Power, average, speed, and defense)

  51. Yes, but who are you putting in?
    Prado, he would 50 errors as a starting 2B.
    Infante, oh yeah, hes out.
    Diory Hernandez?

    I dont like him either, but we still have to trot a team out there.

    And Jeff has no value either, okay arm or not, he sucks.

  52. Kelly Johnson started the Braves decline last year with his dropped popup that cost the Braves a series against the Phillies in Atlanta. Unfortunately he hasn’t improved a lick.

  53. KJ hit is 23 of his last 24 games last year with 12 multi-hit games.
    Again, I am pissed that he has basically stunk all year, but he did show some solid signs last year of being a solid 2B, he just regressed quickly and we could not afford him too knowing our OF would underperform every team in North America including all little leagues.

  54. #93 KJ owned last September, no question. But think about it, we were out of it, no pressure, I think that has proven to be a mirage.

  55. Ryan C explain to me why it would be a bad idea to cut johnson. Enlighten me please

  56. Joe Simpson keeps harping about the tough stretch we have coming up but who care about that? We can’t even beat the Reds! It doesn’t matter who we play, be it the Red Sox or the Nationals.

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