229 thoughts on “It’s not even June yet game thread: May 27, Braves at Giants”

  1. Mac, did you watch this weeks Adult Swim presentation of Mighty Boosh, or is that video just totally a coincidence?

    Did you know Gary Numan has a pilot’s license?

  2. On the bright side, Johnson is a lefty, so Stenchy shouldn’t be totally worthless tonight. At least not at the plate.

  3. I figured as much, but Gary Numan and that song featured prominently in this week’s episode. One of the best sketch-style comedy shows in a long time too, in case you’ve never heard of it. On early Monday morning at 1 am, so I usually DVR it.

  4. Anyone here whether Chipper’s gonna be in the lineup today? I read he still feels pain batting from the right side.

  5. I keep checking Yahoo sports anticipating a move likes it the trade deadline.
    If he is still on the team Sunday i will be very surprised.

  6. One of the coolest streaks in history looks like it’s coming to an end this year — Ichiro has had over 200 hits and over 100 runs scored in all eight of his major league seasons. The latest ESPN projection for 2009* have him collecting 235 hits, but scoring only 62 runs. Thanks for nothing, Betancourt, Beltre, and Junior.

    *which always assume that the player will play every remaining game — don’t ask me why they do it that way, but at least in Ichiro’s case it could actually happen.

  7. @7: Well prepare to be surprised. These things take a while, and even if they’ve definitely decided to replace Francoeur I’d expect we make a move to add someone before we find a trading partner for Jeff. We need more of a sure thing than we could get in trade for Jeff (unless we can package him with some spare parts.)

  8. this piece is an excerpt from peanut’s blog. please, do not read this if you are in a working environment where insane amounts of laughter is prohibited.

    “When Garret Anderson and Brian McCann returned to the lineup, Jeff Francoeur wasn’t happy about the fact that he was primarily hitting seventh, where he says pitchers were less apt to pitch to him because he had Jordan Schafer and the pitcher’s spot sitting behind him.”

    i didnt realize pitchers pitched to him at all. i know he swings. that’s about all the evidence i’ve seen…

    here’s an interesting piece from mlbtraderumors. nationals ready to deal their vets.
    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/05/nationals-ready-to-trade-veterans.html

  9. I call foul. If he’s really astute enough to realize they’ll pitch around him to get to hitters behind him, he should be astute enough to take pitches and walk when they do.

    However, this comment really belies Stenchy’s incompetence. Surely he knows that pitchers wouldn’t pitch around him to get to two more difficult outs.

  10. Damning with faint praise department: I wouldn’t trade Frenchy for Austin Kearns.

  11. @10: I wouldn’t discount 2006 either, which the deeper I look into the stats actually appears to be a decent year for a 22 year old (since I know this will cause controversy more on that after the game or tomorrow, once I get back home to my spreadsheets.)

    I wouldn’t put much weight on 2009, April started good and ended up decent, May has been awful… a similar start to ’08, which worries me. 2008, as I said before, appears to be a product of mental, emotional and mechanical difficulties. Overcoming these is not easy by any stretch, but it is possible (unlike physical deficiencies.)

    I don’t think 2007’s production is a better representation of what Jeff will do, but it is a clear representation of what he can do. 2008 is likely a better representation of what he will do, only because it is more recent, but 2007 earned him the benefit of the doubt in my book, so I excuse his abysmal 2008 and hope for a rebound in ’09. He has rebounded a bit from a run production standpoint, which is a huge weakness for this team, so I’ve extended his leash through the All-Star break. If he picks up his run production pace and Garret doesn’t turn around I might be able to excuse it through the end of the year, but if he puts up two consecutive years with a sub-80 OPS he’ll need a change of scenery.

    My main reason for holding out hope with Jeff is based on necessity. I just don’t see Atlanta honestly competing this year without getting contributions from Francoeur and/or Garret, or making a Tex-like myopic trade. We simply don’t have enough ML-ready resources. I feel the best thing is to hold our current course and if we’ve fallen out of contention by the ASB then look into dealing Francoeur and Soriano for building blocks for 2010 and beyond.

  12. Doesn’t Kearns have a bad contract? I guess I’d take him over Frenchy if the Nationals ate some of the contract.

    Would the Nationals take Morton for Willingham?

  13. Kearns is probably better, but I still wouldn’t do it. He still sucks, so what’s the point, and he’s squandered actual baseball talent. Put a gun to my head, and I’ll take dim over lazy.

  14. @14&15: Someone posted that yesterday. I’m not sure where the laughter comes in.

    As for taking a walk. You don’t take a walk if there are runners in scoring position if the guy behind you is slugging .103 with RISP, and yes you read that right, .103! You have to expand your strike zone in those situations… just ask the Giants how many games Barry Bonds’ dozens of walks won them in 2007.

  15. @18 – what necessity are you speaking of? what contributions are you hoping for? The only contributions we are going to get from Frenchy are inordinant amounts of suckage. How is that going to help Atlanta compete this year? Grab almost any outfielder on any other team, and you could pretty much guarantee he would do more for this team than Frenchy. Yes, he is THAT bad.

  16. No, it’s a bad year. There is no way to make that a good year. However, it’s not uncommon for a player who has a year like that very young to become a good player. It’s a similar year (by OBP and SLG) to Vernon Wells’ Age 23 campaign, and Andre Dawson’s Age 23 campaign. (In Dawson’s case, it wasn’t actually actually a bad season, since offensive levels were so much lower then.) But Wells and Dawson got better.

  17. @20: Kearns is making $8 million this year, with a $1 million buyout of next year’s $10 million dollar club option. Kearns isn’t going to make this team anymore competitive, so I’d keep looking.

  18. Randy Johnson has a 6.26 ERA, 1.57 WHIP and a .293 opponent’s batting average; but despite that I bet he looks like an ace tonight.

  19. @22: There are plenty of outfielders out there that would perform at or below Jeff’s level, but you’ve obviously made up your mind on that point, so I’ll skip to the direct questions.

    I feel it is necessary for us to get quality production out of Jeff and/or Garret in order to compete… whether that is direct production or production from someone we acquired in trade for Jeff. I just don’t see this team competing without adding a big run producing bat, and I don’t see us adding a big run producing bat without making a Tex-like move that would screw us over in the future. Jeff and Garret have shown that they are capable of being that sort of bat in the past, if at least one of them can return to their previous form then we can compete, if they can’t then we just don’t have enough resources to put together a viable run at the division or World Series. I’d rather see us finish 3rd this year and keep developing our youth movement, than trade away the farm to maybe finish 2nd this year and lose in the first round again.

    @23: I’m assuming you’re talking about my comments about ’06. As I said, I’ll make that case tonight. I should note I didn’t say it was a good year, but the more I look at it, the more decent it is beginning to appear, especially for a 22 year old.

  20. Braves Outfield VORP:
    Jeff Francoeur: -4.7 (630/663). Number of PA’s: 185
    Jordan Schafer: -4.1 (619/663). Number of PA’s: 176
    Garret Anderson: – 3.4 (605/663). Number of PA’s: 99
    Matt Diaz: 5.7 (131/663). Number of PA’s: 89

    Apparently the more useless you are in the Braves Outfield, the more plate appearances you’re rewarded with. Makes a ton of sense to me.

  21. PWHjort, all that proves is that Francoeur is still one of the team’s four best outfielders, and the more you look at it the more decent it will begin to appear.

  22. question_ how bad of an outfielder is Norton? He is not doing anything as a
    ph right now and maybe some plying time woud help?

  23. This is something ur been wondering about and want to hear your thoughts… If the fans vote Manny Ramirez into the allstar game, is that an event that should cause MLB to reconsider banning PEDs? If the fans don’t care about the integrity of the game, or don’t think it’s compromised by PEDs, why ban them?

  24. We’ll go Runs Created / 27 Outs
    Jeff Francoeur (72/92 NL Outfielders): 3.11
    Jordan Schafer (69/92 NL Outfielders): 3.50
    Garret Anderson (75/92 NL Outfielders): 2.98
    Matt Diaz (23/92 NL Outfielders): 7.01

    Well, ACHE isn’t THAT much more useless than Francoeur.

  25. Yahoo has a headline “Epic meltdown by pitcher” , It was bad but I have seen worse. Zambrano goes nuts but not to the degree of Yahoos story line.

  26. Zambrano’s meltdown was more retarded than “epic.”

    I don’t really have much respect for a guy who’ll get angry at a call, sling the ball into the bleachers, sling his glove into the stands, and then go into the dugout and take a bat to the water coolers. Get real, jackass.

  27. I think we’ve already said it all and then some with respect to Stenchy’s ineptitude.

  28. It’s joke lineup night:

    1. Diory Hernandez, SS
    2. Kotchman, 1B
    3. Chipper, 3B
    4. Prado, 2B
    5. Diaz, LF
    6. Francoeur, RF
    7. Ross, C
    8. Schafer, CF
    9. Kawakami, RHP

  29. Without Yunel and against Johnson, I don’t see much else Bobby could do. If Yunel and Infante were healthy, Kotchman would be sitting too. Nobody has lefties face Johnson; only 32 PA by lefties against him this year. He could be a LOOGY until he’s 60.

  30. David O’Brien

    May 27th, 2009
    8:36 pm
    Talked to someone in Braves organization who sort of dismissed the Red Sox rumor. Said he hadn’t heard one thing about them having any serious interest in Francoeur or scouting him recently.

  31. @33: Because PED are an afront to everything that athletic competition should stand for, they interrupt the integrity of the game, and they are a harmful influence in youth athletics. Allowing them in the game forces anyone who wants to compete at the highest levels to intentionally harm their body.

    Also, I don’t think I’d take Manny being voted into the All-Star game as proof that fans don’t care about PEDs, only that a subset of fans don’t care enough to keep a big name out of an exhibition… All-Star fan voting is and always will be a fraud.

    @39: If the Braves release Norton, which I’m beginning to think makes sense, they should call-up Brandon Jones, not Barbaro. That way we can see if Jones could actually fill one of our corner outfield spots without having to completely give up on Jeff or Garret.

    @42: I can’t believe that… why is Diory in the leadoff spot instead of Schafer? If Schafer is going to ever contribute on this team he’s going to have to learn to leadoff, and he’s actually fared well in that role leading off innings and in the one or two games he’s been in the 1 hole… oh, right, I forgot Johnson was pitching before I wrote all this… hahaha… I can see why we wouldn’t throw him to that wolf just yet.

  32. I can’t believe that… why is Diory in the leadoff spot instead of Schafer?

    Lefties apparently can’t face Randy Johnson, even though they’re hitting .333 against him this year.

  33. Gadfly, do you really want Schafer leading off against Randy Johnson?

    here some lifetime stats for you: Johnson vs LH

    499IP 359H 142BB 587K .198BAA

  34. does anyone have a real answer as to why diaz gets no love from the braves organization?

  35. csg , u cant use lifetime stats when talking to gad, u must use the francour conversion factor and fit the timeline to suit your needs

  36. @50: Did you read my whole post? I just got in from two hours of basketball and was reading it without thinking of the context. I guess I should’ve just deleted it, but I wanted to repeat that I do think Schafer needs to eventually hit leadoff or get sent down. Batting him 8th isn’t really helping him develop the skills he needs to be developing now.

    Those are some insane stats though… almost a 1.00 WHIP for his career against lefties, wow. Here’s another amazing one: Right/Left PA split: 14812/2046! Only 12.1% of the batters he’s faced have been right-handed, Glavine is? at 20.5%, Hampton’s at 20.6%, Pettite’s at 21.6%, and Moyer’s all the way up at 25.5%. It surprises me that Glavine is #2 on this list, with the old “neutralize his changeup” line of reasoning.

  37. @52: Lifetime stats are a good start, especially with a player nearing the end of a long career like Johnson. With a 25 year-old player who has had a wildly inconsistent first 4 Major League seasons, when he probably shouldn’t have been in the Majors for the first third of that, you need to look a little deeper.

    @54: No problem, I don’t think many do, and sometimes I can’t blame them. You probably should before you respond to it though.

  38. ACHE is far more useless than Jeffy.

    Mac sucks up to gadfly. :-)

    Re the lineup tonight–at least Diaz is in and Anderson is out.

  39. Peanut writes that the Braves are going to wait a few more days, and if he still can’t go they’ll probably DL him retroactive to his injury and call up Brooks Conrad.

  40. Yep. Conrad isn’t on the 40 man, either, but I think there’s room for him to be added.

  41. There aren’t any other infielders on the 40-man, and Conrad has been hitting. He’s also hit more than 20 homers in each of the last four seasons.

  42. For some reason, Oakland never really gave him a chance at the big league level.

  43. Figures. The Astros don’t like young players with potential. ( See the mishandling of Chris Burke)

  44. So Conrad has 20 hr each of the past 4 seasons–wonder if he can play OF. Probably not much worse than some of the other characters we trot out there.

  45. Andy Pettitte has 230-some odd wins and if his arm holds up has an outside shot.

    Edit: Actually, 219, and he’s 37. Probably not. Mike Mussina had a real chance with 270 but retired last year after winning 20 games.

  46. Now they’re showing highlights from Johnson’s perfecto. I remember that was right after Ben Sheets had 18 Ks against us (and I think that was the same series as the Giles/Andruw collision). What an awful week that was.

    That was 5 years ago? Holy crap.

  47. a perfect game requires lots of luck–no bloop hit, seeing eye grounders, etc.–but this year’s offense is entirely capable of such ineptitude

  48. @66 – Ah, why the hell not. If you’re gonna lose, might as well be a part of history. No one’s ever had 2, right?

  49. I don’t think that I have ever seen a runner get picked off twice and score! Then again, this is Atlanta Braves baseball….

  50. I’ve started playing “Yakety Sax” on my iPod during particularly rancid Braves performances such as this one. It’s like pairing a gourmet dinner with the perfect wine … or washing down a Spam sandwich with Milwaukee’s Best.

  51. All hail Diory! Way to help the Braves avoid a particularly specific type of ignominy.

  52. 79—And Low is a UT guy!

    That “double steal” might be the Pradoest Prado we’ve yet seen.

  53. I don’t quite understand how the moron scorekeeper can rule that a double steal. Rowand stopped halfway down the goddamn line and didn’t break for home until Ross fell down thanks to the errant throw.

  54. 98,

    My guess is they can’t call it an error because it was the field’s fault (as ludicrous as that sounds). This is where Chipper twisted his knee when the field gave way two years ago.

  55. The definition of “Prado” can now include superfluous outs. This is the stuff of legend.

  56. Prado with a nice, if unnecessary, turn.

    What’s up with the asian dudes in the new KFC commercial? Are we supposed to believe asian people walk around like that all the time?

  57. There is not a guy in the lineup today I would want on any team I ran. The ONLY player on this roster that is worth anywhere close to his paycheck is McCann.

    I am so damn tired of Chipper Jones and his glass feet act. How much money did the braves just commit to him? He should have been traded for prospects years ago and then maybe we wouldn’t have to watch stenchy and Ache and Prado and Kawakami and the rest of the crap that make up this team.

    This team sucks.

  58. So the Blue Jays just got swept by the Orioles…so basically the Braves caught the Blue Jays at exactly the right time.

    Poor Francouer….what an embarrassing stat.

  59. @107 – or that it was totally natural for Jason Alexander to lead a merry band of idiots down the street to trumpet one of the dumber sandwiches ever released, the McDLT:

  60. What stat, Tony? So many embarassing things to choose from. Meanwhile…Prado must be on drugs.

  61. Sciambi just said of everyday outfielders eligible for the batting title, Francouer ranks 68 out of 69 in on-base %. Of all 279 players, he is like 270 or something.

  62. 124, I need some of what he’s on. This game is agonizing and my roommate is eating up.

  63. They should immediately drug test Prado after the game…lol…that was just hilarious, sad, but funny as hell.

    Hernandez is getting comfortable.

  64. 124: Not hard to score some weed in San Francisco, so that’s quite plausible.

  65. Sciambi just said of everyday outfielders eligible for the batting title, Francouer ranks 68 out of 69 in on-base %

    I heard that too. Who the heck is 69th?

  66. As spaced out as he’s been, it’s got to be something worse than weed. I’ve seen people play second base higher than kites make better decisions. Prado must have gotten hold of Dock Ellis’ man in the bay area.

  67. Didn’t Chipper play in that movie with Bruce Willis? Remember, Bruce couldn’t get hurt, but Chipper was made of glass. I remember it…it was called Unbreakable.

    Good movie.

  68. Chipper swung at two straight ball fours. Was he trying to “make something happen” before Prado got up there?

  69. Kotch singled to left with 2 out to drive in Schafer and cut the lead to 2-1. Chipper then struck out on multiple awkward swings which appear to have been the result of his bad toe.

  70. Schafer singled, was bunted over by the pitcher, Diory hit a ball hard to the third baseman for an out. Kotchman singled to left, Schafer scored. Chipper struck on a terrible swing on a 3-2 pitch.

    Light-hitting Burris just hit a double over Francouer’s head

  71. @147: They probably thought his 299th win was safe. Even safer after they got that third run.

  72. Yeah, but I’d rather see him stay in and try to get one more out than bring in Moylan, who’s been a bloody gas can lately.

  73. That looked like Burriss is trying to imitate Prado. He failed though, got an error.

  74. I hate to laugh at your misfortune, RobBroad4th, but I’m laughing at your misfortune.

    Bunt, Frenchy, bunt!

  75. my lord, the guy before you walks and you hack at the 1st pitch. Frenchy, I really really hate you being on this team!

  76. Correct me if I’m wrong, but did Frenchy swing at the first pitch three at bats in a row?

  77. The catcher went up to talk to the pitcher before Frechy batted, no doubt hilarity ensued.

  78. Love it – the guy before and after Frenchy walked, yet he swings at the first pitch. Classic Frenchy!

  79. @14 “When Garret Anderson and Brian McCann returned to the lineup, Jeff Francoeur wasn’t happy about the fact that he was primarily hitting seventh, where he says pitchers were less apt to pitch to him because he had Jordan Schafer and the pitcher’s spot sitting behind him.”

    It’s this kind of crap that more than anything else shows how hopeless Jeffy is.

  80. Since May 10, Anderson’s actually been useful. He was hitting .349 between then and 2 days ago, and has gone 2-4 since then.

  81. I sometimes wonder if the Braves’ organization teaches hitters to swing at the first pitch….

  82. Can’t wait for Superfly to come back after the game and give us his dissertation on why signing Kawakami was not an egregiously stupid decision by Wren, on par with offering arbitration to that useless sack of turds Francoeur, because we didn’t really need a one dimensional player like Adam Dunn anyway.

  83. I am hoping that if Schafer looks hopeless long enough the Braves will come to their senses….

  84. Anderson is fair and I think he will end up hitting for a decent average, but his power is non-existent. If we didn’t have Norton, he would be an okay bench player, but nothing more. Maybe we should release Norton and keep Anderson, but please don’t start Garrett in left!

  85. look, Schafer has looked bad for two months, Jeffy has looked like this for 2 and a half years. I can be patient with Schafer but Jeffy’s time is up.

  86. Can we please get Chipper out of there? He’s killing us at the plate and now in the field. That’s likely an inning-ending DP with Prado at third. (Yes, I’m aware that Prado’s had a brutal game defensively, but he’s better at third than at second.)

  87. O’Flaherty’s giving them right back, though he’s getting dinked and dunked.

  88. O’Flaherty is finally looking mortal. Still, unless he continues to pitch like this after tonight, he is much better than we could have ever anticipated.

  89. disturbing frenchy fact:
    in 24 may games, flailcoeur has left 52 men on base, but he has 8 rbis.

  90. I think Superfly will also need to give us a dissertation on why offering an extension to Chipper Jones for no good reason whatsoever was not Frank Wren’s biggest bonehead move yet. The guy’s body is clearly breaking down and we give him 42 million over three additional years? We will never win another championship with this front office.

  91. 193–True enough, but I would rather not see the Braves ruin another promising young outfielder…

  92. Is it just me or are these West Coast road trips always horrific for us? It seems like every one of them are.

  93. sdp–its not just you: but then over the years I havn’t felt that confident when we went to Florida either….

  94. Chipper with 4 Ks….he has spent too much time with Schafer and Stenchy….

  95. It seems like we always play really bad against the really bad teams and always seem to beat the good ones. Don’t really get that.

  96. #213–I know what you mean…and I think that it does say something….

  97. This line-up is abysmal. I started watching in 1991 and I can’t think of a worse line-up than the one Bobby trotted out today.

  98. At least there was some good news on the farm: Richard Sullivan had a great game at the Beach: a 3 hit shutout with 9 strikeouts…

    Gerardo Rodriquez hit for the cycle at Rome…

  99. #218–Actually, the way the Braves played reminded of the teams from the 1970s and 1980s….

  100. ryan c Says:

    disturbing frenchy fact:
    in 24 may games, flailcoeur has left 52 men on base, but he has 8 rbis.
    May 27th, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    Ugh. That should do for the recap, nothing else needs to be said.

  101. Did I not predict this would happen… right after we sweep the Jays, we throw that away and get swept by the GIANTS.

  102. After his last game with the Braves on May 27, 2005, Raul Mondesi had an OPS of .630. After Jeff’s May 27 game, he has an OPS of .629.

  103. JC, but Frenchy has talent and that matters. Look at what he did in April of this season, august of last season, and 2005! If he didnt have to play the rest of the games around those months he’d be an allstar. I cant believe you guys dont notice his 2 out rbis

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