200 thoughts on “Who’s the guy on bass game thread: Phillies at Braves, July 1”

  1. from the previous thread:

    Jeff M.,

    I think Acosta is more suited for at the front end of the bullpen, where he would be if Moylan and Soriano hadn’t been hurt all season. I really think that he, Boyer, and Ohman have been over-used, because Bobby always refuses to use at least one pitcher, for whatever reason (Devine, Stockman, etc.)

    I still wish we had Joey Devine, but thats another story.

    Essentially, Acosta would’ve been the guy that gets used in 6-1, 8-3 type leads, or when we are behind late in the game by the same magnitude. Guys like Ohman, Boyer, Moylan, would serve as setup men to the closer-of-the week. Having at least two of Gonzalez, Soriano, Moylan, would make a huge difference, and we’ve had at best only one of them healthy, but for the most part, they’ve all been hurt.

    At least Wren/Schuerholz did a good job of having plenty of depth at the position, the same with LF/CF. Too bad the same can’t be said for catcher…


    again, will someone please link the glossary? Thanks

  2. Does anyone else think that Bobby Cox being senile and whatnot is affecting this team in the sense that:

    1) today’s game is much more sabermetric or whatever you want to call it
    b) Bobby probably can’t use a cpu let alone sit in front of a screen and analyze his players on a spreadsheet
    4)he thinks yelling “take ball 4, kid” is going to psyche out the opposing pitcher

  3. thanks Mac, not sure why I must have kept overlooking it, bud it didn’t answer my question…

    what does “bad-ass weasels” refer to?

  4. Maybe I’ll get my ‘Braves fan 4 life’ card revoked but I hope we either sweep or get swept in this series. Either get in the race or get out. The former obviously being much preferred. This flirtation with .500 is a road to nowhere.

  5. Someone (Barrycuda? I don’t remember) asked in the Sunday the 22nd game thread something like “are the people here bad-asses or weasels?” in the context of discussion if it was okay to root for a Francoeur injury. There was more to it than that, but I fixed on “bad-ass” and “weasels” and said that we were bad-ass weasels. It’s not a very interesting story. And I’m not sure what it means.

  6. Dave Barry (I have never made a secret of the fact that this site is basically a rip-off of Bill James; my politics site is actually mostly just a rip-off of Dave Barry) says that “weasel” is an inherently funny word. It’s a word I try to use whenever appropriate.

  7. Does anyone else think that Bobby Cox being senile and whatnot is affecting this team in the sense that:

    1) today’s game is much more sabermetric or whatever you want to call it
    b) Bobby probably can’t use a cpu let alone sit in front of a screen and analyze his players on a spreadsheet
    4)he thinks yelling “take ball 4, kid” is going to psyche out the opposing pitcher

    I’m not sure it gets any funnier than a someone-else-might-be-senile comment followed by a 1, b, 4 sequencing of the reasons why. This comment made my day.

  8. hehe, that’s my tribute to Buzz from Home Alone. Say what you want about Macaulay(sp?) Culkin but that movie is still great to this day

  9. Acosta is probably better suited for such a role. But at this point, he can’t be used even there because he’s been SO bad lately. I think either given some time off to rest or some time in the minors to fix his pitching or his head (whichever or both) would do him wonders, but only if he returns to pitching, as you say, in low pressure situations. And with Gonzales back, it seems that it could be done, keeping Boyer and Ohman to setup, while using the rest (acosta, ring, bennett, and carlye) for the rest. Anyway, it’s a longish post to say that I agree…

  10. No, a guy named Brad’s on drums.

    Nice vid, Mac. (You Bama people really stick together.)

    And we all know that bass player.

  11. Bullpens are especially frustrating, because it change so drastically from year-to-year. Tampa Bay, Baltimore, ChiSox, and Philadelphia all had very poor bullpens last year, but this year, they have been among the league leaders.

    Obviously, injuries have a big impact, but the good part is that its one of the easiest to fix.

    The bottom line about bullpen productivity is whether or not starting pitching is a function of it or if the bullpen’s performance is more a product of the pitching coach or the GM/player development side of the team?

    In our case, I think its injuries. Again, setting the absence of Smoltz, Glavine, and Hampton aside…but a bullpen of Soriano-Gonzalez-Moylan-Ohman-Boyer-Ring- Acosta-and Bennett/Caryle/etc. would easily be the best in baseball.

    Again, sorry for the length, digression, and not really saying anything everyone doesn’t already
    know, but the other bottom line has been that our main problem has been a lineup full of holes coupled with a poor bench, which is the fault of Bobby and Wren directly, imho.

  12. That’s a helluva American rock band right there.

    Ububba, from the last thread, “Burning Streets” from Joe Strummer’s last album is probably one of my favorite songs. My barber turned me on to it — no, really, my barber in Atlanta’s an audiophile and one of the coolest people I know.

    Have you heard the new Dokken album, Lightning Strikes Again? I’ve kind of had it in my head for a while now. They basically decided to come back as Cheap Trick. It’s absolutely delicious.

  13. re: 5

    Robert, I agree with you. I can’t stand not knowing the fate of this team. The only thing we know about this team is that Francoeur stinks.

  14. I just checked out the glossary for the 1st time, & I was crying halfway through it. The “Dan Kolb” entry was especially good.

  15. should the thread read “who’s the guy on bass?” or “who’s the guy on base?”

  16. We know who’s not on base…

    You mean Dokken, as in rockin’?

    I have a real blind spot for those ’80s hair bands—my fave description for them was “Nerf Metal”— so I can’t tell you much about Dokken. Although as a genuine Cheap Trick fan, I’m heartened to hear they’re following a different path.

    Saw Cheap Trick twice, about 20 years apart, and they were great both times.

  17. Please remember that All-Star voting ends tomorrow. Francoeur only needs about 2 million votes to put him in the All Star game.

    Btw, (from pvs thread) I have to admit that McDowell seems to be silencing his critics (I’ve been one of them) this year. I still don’t know what to think about his preseason conditioning – can a few of our injuries be traced to shortcomings in this program? I don’t know and I’m no longer a critic, but it’s an interesting question to ponder.

  18. Just checked out the Glossary again (I know I looked at it a couple months ago)… why is Stinky Pete after Sneaky Pete instead of as a reference to Stinky Pete (aka “The Old Prospector”) voiced by Kelsey Grammer in Toy Story 2… or maybe I’m the only one who actually watches the Pixar movies with his kids… all 756 times.

  19. AAR,
    Yeah, that’s being kind.

    When Nerf Metal was big, I was knee-deep into things like the Bad Brains, Black Flag & Husker Du, which made that stuff seem like cotton candy. I mean, I grew up on proto-metal—Sab, Zep, even some Priest—but I never connected with that material.

    I’d always been told that Dokken was different from that bunch, but I heard the same stuff about Queensryche, so I’ve remained suspicious.

    Plus, I could never get past all that hairspray.

  20. Most surprising to me is that Corey Hart has actually walked less than Francoeur.

  21. I say no. Jeff swings at just about anything. The only way that he doesn’t swing at Acosta’s offering is if he bounces it up there. And even then, Jeff might swing at it.

  22. I picked up a Queensryche best-of not long ago, and was remarkably surprised at how much I tolerated and even liked it. They underwent some rather major, major changes in sound, from straight NWOBHM to, more or less, alternative rock. But they definitely have some songs that don’t suck. And that’s far, far more than you can say for Poison, Crue, or any of those others.

    Of course, compared to Zep (or even Live at Leeds), it’s hard for any of these guys to sound like they’re reinventing the wheel guitarically speaking.

    But if you dig Priest, let me share with you one of my secrets: a Russian metal band called Aria. You can stream their albums at http://www.russiandvd.com. (Click the “switch to English” button at the top if the page is in Russian.) Click here for all their albums; just go to any of them and click on the “Preview” button. It’ll let you listen to the whole thing in Windows Media Player.

  23. Also, the answer to the poll question is easy: “Yes.”

    Manny would groove one down the middle of the plate, and Jeff would take it for a strike.

  24. But they definitely have some songs that don’t suck. And that’s far, far more than you can say for Poison, Crue, or any of those others.

    Look, I dislike those bands as much as the next worth-knowing guy, but do you honestly think neither has a single song that doesn’t suck?

  25. AAR, I was considering that possibility, but then would Manny think that Francoeur was thinking that and try to cross him up by throwing a pitch at the on-deck circle?

  26. AAR,
    I’ll check it out, thanks.

    And I’ll somewhat amend the Priest comment. I liked 3 of their records, including the one that put them on trial because it “made kids shoot themselves.”

    But when they came out with British Steel, their VH-1-sanctioned classic album, I got off the boat. I liked only 2 of the songs & never bought another Priest record. I was done.

  27. Stu, I’ll readily cop to being a pretentious elitist snob when it comes to music, so while I’m sorta willing to concede that Crue or Poison might have a song that doesn’t suck, I’ve never heard it, and never tried too hard to find out. In the meantime, I’m confident that I can keep up my “everything they did sucked!” posture before someone calls me on it.

    Brett Myers has been asking for it all season, letting himself be outpitched by Kyle Kendrick and Adam Eaton. What’s really funny is that this is Gavin Floyd’s breakout year, and he was the other guy who was supposed to be the Phillies’ next star pitcher for the decade. I think they have some serious issues with pitcher development. (I’m not gonna even bring up Brandon Duckworth, David Coggin, or Carlton Loewer.)

  28. @31, thanks and I am. But I also don’t revisit the past much so it’s weird to see, for me, if that makes any sense. I can still rock, though ;-)

    Speaking of rockin’, I highly recommend Dan Baird’s latest live record. He’s always been one of my favorite songwriters (and criminally underrated, IMHO) and this one really captures his current band in all their glory.

    The first Crue album is one of the greatest cowbell records of all time.

  29. So, ububba, tell us about A-Rod & Madonna. Is this the greatest story of the year or what?

  30. If true, it wouldn’t be the first Latin ballplayer she’s hooked up with. I remember years ago, there were some Yankee Stadium hecklers who got on Canseco pretty bad about it.

  31. Wow, now Chipper gets to really hurt his quads and be out for two months. Glad he is in the lineup but how can you go from nearly being on the DL to playing in two days?

  32. In reference to Brett Myers, I have never understood how teams are able to send veterans down like that. Does he have options left, or if he accepts the assignment, they don’t have to subject him to waivers ?? Please somebody explain this to me.

  33. lineup


    I can’t believe Bobby actually went with the L/L in 5-6, without inserting Francoeur in between them, not that i’m complaning.

  34. Crue Too Fast for Love and Shout at the Devil were solid.
    Poison, oh well, they were just bad.
    Queensryche Operation Mindcrime was very good.
    Yes I grew up in the 80’s and went to college in the 90’s.
    Then again, those bands were great compared to the 83-89 Braves teams i watched every night.

  35. Granted its a small sample size, but here our career splits vs. Kendrick:

    Johnson: .364 .417 .455 (12 PA)
    Chipper: .500 .583 1.200 (12 PA) 2 HR’s
    Francouer: .364 .364 .364 (11 PA) 4 K’s
    McCann: .100 .182 .100 (11 PA)
    Teixiera: .167 .375 .667 (8 PA) HR

  36. Chip doesnt even make it through one pitch without saying something stupid, expressing shock that Jimmy Rollins, a career .277 hitter, is “ONLY HITING .264?!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!”

    God he’s so fucking stupid.

  37. Well, if I can’t listen to the home team telecast, at least I get Harry Kalas instead of the normal crap I usually get. Even I’d take Chip if it meant I got Braves telecasts.

  38. I’m really scared the Chipper’s quad may spontaneously explode at some point in this series.

  39. Chip and Joe are talking about how many things Francoeur has done differently to try to snap out of the slump … how about changing the letter on the cap from “A” to “R”?

  40. Good to see the Braves still bending over for Shane Victorino. Sure look like World Champs tonight!

  41. Well, like our starting SS, LF, and RF, he should be learning how to play in Richmond, not getting killed during a pennant race for us.

  42. re: 82

    What are you talking about?

    Every single one of those balls was smoked.

  43. This is ridiculous.

    ETA: I’m listening on the radio, and the descriptions sound like grounders that are just getting under gloves and crap like that.

  44. Major-league players? We have the prospects and the money to not have to field these guys right now. There is no way that Charlie Morton and Brent Lillibridge should be playing major roles for ATL right now. But as he’s done since taking over, our GM thinks promoting guys from the minors is “making a move”.

  45. I blame Ozzie Smith.

    It seems the Braves always collapse when the announcers are interviewing someone while the opposing team is batting.

  46. We have the money, but when corporate ownership is involved and there’s a hard-and-fast budget to which the GM must adhere, alternatives are limited. That’s why an individual owner with cash is essential … for flexibility and alternatives that this franchise once had, but does not currently possess.

  47. Which prospects?

    What money?

    Which players from other clubs are available at prices that are considered reasonable?

  48. That was pretty damn frustrating.

    All those hits in a row punctuating what was an otherwise painfully bland conversation between Chip and Ozzie. Made me wanna break shit.

  49. When things are collapsing in the first game of a series that could make or break the season, it would be nice if the announcers gave a rat’s a$$ instead of slobbering over a Hall of Famer who didn’t have as much as an at-bat in the team’s uniform.

  50. Did someone really write that we are in a pennant race? How about we get to .500 first?

    A Buddy sighting….

  51. You’re right…we don’t have one single prospect any other team would want, and we’re completely maxed out financially. I guess Lillibridge, Norton, Corky, Gotay et al is the best we can do.

  52. Ozzie is more interesting when he does those Cordell & Cordell divorce law commercials.

    or, maybe it was his pairing with Chip Caray that made him seem so banal.

  53. You’re right, we should make some crazy move and trade half the farm for a player! Then we can be….

    The Seattle Mariners!

  54. 98 — Corky’s presence isn’t as much about the “best we can do” as much as it is making decisions that defy all semblance of logic and reason — like keeping him instead of Brayan Pena.

  55. Maybe Carlyle should play right field. His at-bats are better than Francoeur’s.

  56. Why is Gregor Blanco swinging at the first pitch?

    Seriously, how many morons can one team have?

  57. You’re right, we should make some crazy move and trade half the farm for a player! Then we can be….

    Or the 2007 Atlanta Braves

  58. Brad,
    If you haven’t noticed, our LF, CF, 3B, SS, closer, setup man, plus our projected #1, #3 & #4 starters (I’m not counting Hampton) and our two best utility players have been missing for significant parts of the season.

    Frustrating as it may be, there is no way out of this simply by acquiring veterans that other clubs either don’t want or don’t want to pay.

    If we have to take our lumps, then we have to take our lumps & deal with it. Hopefully, the decisions we make from here on out bear fruit.

  59. That’s gotta be a terrible feeling. Getting struck out by a tomato can like Kyle Kendrick.

  60. I don’t buy the injury excuse. That was the risk with this club. It’s not bad luck that 42 year old pitchers get hurt.

  61. The injuries aren’t excuses; they are facts.

    This team wasn’t good even before all the injuries. That’s also a fact.

  62. Buddy looks like Don Drysdale out there.

    braves hitters (sans McCann) look like Milburn Drysdale.

  63. It’s not physically possible to both suck and blow at the same time, but Francoeur has found a way.

  64. Well, Buddy has done his job once again, he has been hot since coming off the DL.

  65. And this team has been absolutely crippled by injuries. If you can’t see that, you’re blind.

    Wanna complain about how we played over the first couple months, when we had like the best run differential in the NL? Well, put all of those one-run losses on not having any of our top 3 bullpen guys if you want.

    Yes, it’s frustr–

    Did we just pinch hit for Carlyle?!

  66. We didn’t have overwhelming injuries the first what, month of the season? And we didn’t do anything special…another “slow start” that everyone said was ok because the season is so long. This was an pretty good team if EVERYONE stayed healthy and EVERYONE had good years…I realize we don’t have an unlimited payroll like some teams, but that’s too much to ask any team.

  67. Seriously, that’s 37 pitches for Buddy. That’s 20 fewer than Morton! I have no idea why you wreck the bullpen tonight so that you can get a crippled Omar Infante an at-bat.

  68. Dan, simultaneous sucking and blowing can be achieved by circular breathing. The most well-known circular breather is Kenny G, who once held a note on his saxophone for 48 minutes (per wikipedia). This puts Frenchy in excellent company.

  69. The team would be a lot more likely to Richmondize Francoeur if they had more players to work with.

    I don’t agree.

  70. What case? He’s been awful, but Francoeur doesn’t play shortstop. A fill-in hitting .136 is out there tonight.

    Look, we can quibble & snort about putting all our eggs in one basket—a lotta older guys & injury risks playing critical roles—and that’s a fair debate.

    But the best-case scenario with this bunch looked pretty good.

    And any evaluation of this team must begin with the discussion of the injuries and then perhaps move toward a conversation about the wisdom of the roster’s most flimsy components.

    But really, what were we going to do? Not play Smoltz? Not play Chipper? Trade ’em?

    Kotsay? Glavine? There were folks who weren’t crazy about those deals for reasons that were perfectly valid, and that’s fine. For the most part, they haven’t worked out. Gambled & lost there.

    But Escobar? Moylan? The continued physical problems with Soriano & Chuck James? Infante? Prado? I’m not sure where you assign that blame or if there’s any point to it.

  71. Things are so lousy that for a brief moment this morning I felt the team should bring in Barry Bonds. Then I came back to reality. Besides, I’ve told friends that if the Braves ever signed Bonds, I would transfer my allegiance to another team, and I’m too old to change loyalties now.

    Atta-way, Chipper.

  72. I guess Tex figures, “Well, Chipper’s back, I don’t have to hit any more!”

  73. Great, so we would’ve replaced Francoeur with Matt Diaz, who was actually worse than Francoeur before getting hurt? And that’s supposed to make us better?

    Francoeur has barely gotten a day off in 3 years, and suddenly they’re going to send him down? Yeah right.

  74. According the Phillies announcers, Kotsay looks like a guy that just came off the DL.

    Astute observation.

  75. Again with the runners in scoring position. It’s like they’re doing on purpose, along with the one-run road losses, to be some kind of comedy act.

  76. This is good…we’re showing those Phillies they can’t mess with us. We’re really getting in their heads and taking control of the division, like it’s supposed to be around here.
    Watching this team is worse than studying for the bar exam, so I’m going back to studying.

  77. When did Chip become the Riddler?

    “Let me ask you this…”

    “Now, let me ask you this…”

    “But how about this…”

  78. Did anyone else fill in the blank after Joe’s long pause:

    “Sometimes the problem with Acosta is….”

  79. Even though nothing will come of it, I’m glad to see Lillibridge get another hit. Maybe he’ll have his BA over .200 by the time he gets sent down. :-D

  80. Front Office:

    Please be sellers at the trading deadline, PLEASE… Please end this nightmare and all this dead weight.

  81. I’m in favor of implanting electrodes in all commentators which will shock them any time they say “productive out”. Who’s with me?

  82. Umm. Wow. Good thing Utley bailed Tex out of that wold-be devastating GIDP.

    Let’s get going, McCann.

    Or not.

  83. Does anyone else feel this team must be breaking some kind of record for groundouts to second base?

  84. Wild pitcher walks the bases loaded with one out.

    Then gets 2 groundouts in 2 pitches.

  85. Why do Braves pitchers generally refuse to take outs when they’re given to them?

  86. A: They are morons.

    (Cue Skip Caray trotting out the old saw about Gene Mauch. Mauch to pitcher: “They’re trying to give you an out. Let them.”)

  87. Chip just reminded me of Howard Dean circa ’04.


  88. So much for getting any momentum out of Ohman’s performance. Typical Braves.

  89. oh, I miss Yunel

    did anyone see the trivia question tonight? If not, here you go.

    When was the last time the braves had consecutive saves?

    your answer, I may be off by a day or so

    JULY 23-24th 2007 – this shows you how mediocre/terrible this team is

  90. well, we’ll have Jones, Blanco, KJ, Jones against Lidge. Chipper probably wont get a chance to hit

  91. csg –
    That stat was so dumbfounding that the Tortonto announcers were talking aboot it last weekend.

  92. mraver, you cant pitch to a .213 hitter. its too dangerous, you should know better

  93. wouldnt you bring in Ring to pitch to a lefty? Oh wait, I think Ring died this April. I havent seen him since and it explains a lot

  94. Using Ring would make sense … but common sense left this organization when it opted to keep Corky over Brayan Pena, so I really don’t expect it to enact decisions that make sense anymore.

  95. so last question to consider and I’m going to bed…

    whats worse? the fact that Bobby keeps using the same people in the same situations expecting different results or the fact that I/we watch these games and this team expecting better results???

    oh Ring, I bet your bored somewhere

  96. Boy, Boyer really can’t get that illusive third out. Yet another mystery of this season.

  97. 195 — I haven’t watched this team expecting better results since Kelly Johnson showed he couldn’t field a pop-up.

  98. I honestly don’t know who Cox should have had in there (unless you wanted the closer IN A NON-SAVE SITUATION! 8-0); I mean, he tried Bennett late, he sucked. Ring isn’t very good against regular people, Acosta and Carlyle and Ohman were used.

    The problem is that Boyer and Acosta have already used up all of their good pitching a month or two back.

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