167 thoughts on “Despondent game thread: Mariners at Braves, June 21”

  1. From the last thread…

    Paul DePodesta, as usual, has a smart opinion on callups:

    “My only answer is that in a perfect world (which rarely, if ever, occurs), I prefer bringing guys up when you have the reasonable hope that they’ll never go back down to the minors. That is strictly my opinion, not anyone else’s. This was the case with guys like Khalil and Jake. All too often, though, you see guys come up, struggle, then go back down. That roundtrip ticket can do a lot of damage to a player’s confidence, and that confidence is a key ingredient to success at the highest levels.”

  2. Continued from the last thread, I’ll agree with you that I think a ton of young pitchers get ruined on the sole basis that they have no confidence after they get knocked around in the big leagues a couple of times because they don’t have a lot of success to fall back on. In a perfect world, you would have starting pitching depth and could afford to have them throw more minor league innings, but nobody has much depth these days. I have talked to a couple of scouts that have said basically “these kids only have a certain amount of innings in their arms before they get hurt anyway, so might as well have them pitch those innings in the big leagues.”

  3. Cheer up, guys. Only 89 games to go. And it’s not like anyone else in this division is shooting the lights out.

  4. I’d also like to thank Jay Bruce for joining us back here on earth. It’s nice to have you back.

  5. DOB:

    Don’t ask me why lefty Jeff Ridgway was kept instead of Phil Stockman. I, like most of you, was fairly certain that Ridgway would be the one sent down when Mike Gonzalez was activated (four lefties?)

    It’s not as though Ridgway is out of options or anything. And if Stockman “needed to pitch,” then frankly I don’t understand why he couldn’t pitch at the major league level – you know, for the Braves?

    The big Aussie has made 10 career appearances in the majors, four in 2006 and six this season. In those 10 appearances, Stockman has allowed five hits, one run and eight walks with 13 strikeouts in 11-1/3 innings. A 0.79 ERA and .139 opponents’ average in his big league career.

    Apparently Bobby is the only one who thinks keeping Ridgway over Stockman is a good move. He also seems to think it best to watch the same trio of Acosta, Boyer and Bennett lose games night after night instead of even try Stockman.

  6. Washburn blows. If we lose to that washed bag of a lefthander, I think I’ll vomit

  7. DOB may be unusually candid but if he had truly vomited up the Kool-Aid he would wonder why the Braves traded anything, even a low level prospect and a guy with substance issues, for such a useless pitcher.

  8. Even DOB is getting to be suspicious of Bobby’s thinking.

    Hey – we should have a poll on who will cough up the important hit tonight–Boyer, Acosta, or Bennett? Of course, last night’s game may indicate that Ohman’s psychological and physical tumult has begun, so he may be up for a few 8th-inning losses too…

  9. Carroll R. says that Lillibridge has been called up as an emergency backup with Ridgway sent out.


    Omar Infante SS
    Kelly Johnson 2B
    Greg Norton LF
    Mark Teixeira 1B
    Jeff Francoeur RF
    Brian McCann C
    Ruben Gotay 3B
    Gregor Blanco CF
    Jurrjens P

    I’m surprised KJ’s batting 2nd instead of Gotay.

  10. could be worse–Francoeur could be in the 3 hole

    I’d rather see Jones than Norton

    Lillibridge move isn’t too surprising. Ridgway hit the highway.

  11. Okay, let’s see… You put the guy with the worst career OBP leadoff. You put the guy with the worst numbers this year third. You take your two best hitters and you put them second and sixth so they can’t interact. You put the only guy with speed eighth so that if he gets on base he won’t be able to steal.


  12. Ugh. Looks like a lineup that could possibly make even Washburn look like a star.

    Yep, better hit McCann 6th against the tough lefty. Ugh again.

  13. Once upon a time I was so happy when DirecTV added the games on PeachTree TV to channel 617 for us viewers in the south outside of Atlanta. Now I can only curse them for the horrors my eyes have to witness.

  14. Given the meat by-products available, how would this be for a lineup?

    Blanco cf
    Gotay 3b
    Johnson 2b
    McCann c
    BJones lf
    Teixeira 1b
    Lillibridge ss
    Francoeur rf

  15. Brian–you’d have the All-Spam team with Norton and Corky instead of McC and KJ (Gotay would play 2nd and Norton 3rd)

  16. Wow, Greg Norton batting third. I can honestly say that was something I never envisioned happening when the season began. A guy who the worst team in baseball couldn’t find a place is penciled into the 3 hole for tonight.

    Someone please shoot me.

  17. Seriously what is wrong with Bobby Cox? He is getting worse and worse with his moves.

  18. Hey Mac- I know Cleveland is not the most “sexy” town in the country (seriously…have you ever even been there?). But the Rock Hall is beautiful…the citizens paid for it out of their own pockets, and continue to support it 15 years later.

    (sorry, but I have a lot of family there…I hate the whole “why is the rock hall in Cleveland…why not NY or Seattle” BS. Because they F’ing paid for it! THats why!)

    And…uh…yeah, Francoeur sucks.

  19. Here’s a Bobby quote that is as questionable as his line-up:

    “(Lillibridge) is our only extra infielder,” Cox said, adding he didn’t want to send Ridgway back to Richmond “but we had no choice. Somebody had to go, because we had to make a move.”

    So, uh, Bobby, you didn’t want to send Ridgway back, but you couldn’t wait to send Stockman?

  20. Worst team in baseball in our house showing us who’s the the boss and it’s not Tony Danza.

  21. I’m not normally in favor of these types of responses, but Cox should pull Francoeur for that . That’s the second time that he’s booted a ball like that recently. Yes, I understand the bench situation.

  22. Ladies and gentleman I give you Jarrod Washburn, who sucks so hard we’ll probably try to acquire him.

  23. That’s exactly what you want your leadoff and #2 hitter to do. Get on base to set the table for … Greg Norton.

  24. Three high 80-something MPH balls and Norton and his .182 batting average (and batting third) is blown away.

    I don’t blame Francoeur or Jurrjens. I blame Infante. Guy can’t play SS. What’s the point of Lillibridge being here? Why start the guy who can’t make the routine plays at shortstop?

  25. Wow, Francouer’s last swing is one of the most pathetic things I’ve seen all season. And that’s saying a lot for this team.

  26. well, theres ribs on the smoker, beer on ice, good tunes on the box and good company on the way.., these bozo braves are on their own tonight.

  27. That may have been the worst Frenchy swing I have seen all year, that’s all I can say.

  28. Adrian Beltre was scratched with “a bruised left index finger??” Wow, the beauty of long term guaranteed contracts. Don’t hurt your vag on the way out of town Adrian.

  29. I’d really like to see how this lineup ranks in the all time worst department.

    And to think someone said today that this team has very few holes. Ha!

  30. McCann being 6th, behind both Norton and Francoeur, in the lineup is simply inexcusable.

    I hate myself for hating Bobby Cox, but that’s where I find myself, and I think that’s likely where I’ll stay until he retires.

    His team is no longer worth my time. Going to enjoy my Saturday night with my wife!

  31. LOL…I don’t get commercial breaks on Peachtree TV, sometimes I hear snippits that the announcer dont intend to hear….just now during commercial break…

    Skip: I gotta question for ya, when does the cow do the chop?

    Joe: Why didn’t they put that Cow out with all that other circus crap?

  32. You could make a case with the exception of the Jurrjens this lineup would make just as much sense in reverse order, which I can honestly say I have ever thought about any lineup before in my lifetime.

  33. Well, Francoeur would be hitting cleanup, and KJ would be hitting seventh. This team has essentially no power at all, of course, so any cleanup hitter is a “Why him?”

  34. I don’t really get commercials on PeachTree either, just mass amounts of DirecTV stuff but I do hear the oops stuff. Do you watch on Direct too Douglass?

  35. To me, Frenchy batting cleanup would make as much sense as Norton batting third.

  36. Jurrjens basically is all, ‘To hell with the defense, I’ll just strike them all out’

  37. I don’t watch on direcTV. I have basic cable, but my cable provider patches through the Peachtree TV games on CSPAN, commercial free.

  38. Please, for the love of God and all that is good and decent, option “Stenchy” back to the minor leagues and call up someone else. There has to be someone better than Francoeur is right now down there, there just has to.

  39. That wasn’t even close to the strike zone.

    Take ball four, Frenchy. At least contribute.

  40. At least we have some good young starters. Otherwise this wouldn’t be watchable.

  41. The sad thing is that is one of the more productive at-bats w/RISP Francoeur has had in quite some time.

  42. Hey anybody remember that Jason Stark article about us going to the World Series? Yeah me neither.

  43. Not only do we miss Chipper and Yunel’s bats, but we obviously miss their gloves too.

  44. A new thing for Joe to be a bitch about…

    “Ichiro has his first name on the back of his jersey..I dont understand that. You don’t see Chipper with ‘Chipper’ on the back of his jersey.”

    :huge eyeroll:

    stick to bitching about maple bats and “that circus crap” in the outfield, please.

  45. just tuned in and saw the bottom of that last inning. Despite somehow managing the longerst AB of his career (or so it seemed) Francouer grounded out weakly and Washburn never even threw him a strike.

    I missed an apparent error….what happened? frenchy had a boot to go along with a K and a weak ground out?

    And this lineup….inexusable for Cox. McCann behind Norton and Francoer? It’s official, he’s lost it.

    I can’t believe it’s come to this: scuffling against the Mariners.

  46. I know it’s been mentioned, but, seriously, Norton is batting third? Really? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

  47. Only down two… let’s make damn sure not to hit anything until the 8th at the earliest.

  48. Not to flame, but has anyone seen ryanc lately. I’d like to hear his “current” take on this team.

  49. Seeing Ichiro tonight reminded me of something, why does he have an MVP? Does anyone else remember that year? Giambi had an OPS of like 393493 with 40 plus HR and still lost.

  50. In the offseason before 2006, an older, graying Jarrod Washburn shows up at Bill Bavasi’s place in a Dalorean. He slips Bavasi a sheet of paper with his pitching line from this game and only says “against the Atlanta Braves, in 2008” (with no mention of the actual lineup). Next day, Bavasi inks Washburn to multiple years at twice the money any other team would imagine paying for him. And that’s how Washburn will retire an incredibly wealthy man. That’s really the only way the Washburn deal makes sense.

  51. Question to myself: “how hard do you think Mariner fans are laughing at Norton batting third tonight?”

    Answer: http://ussmariner.com/2008/06/21/game-74-mariners-at-braves/#comments

    “Norton hitting 3rd?

    I believe Bobby Cox is mocking us.”

    “Norton batting third? Infante batting fifth yesterday, in left? I know you guys told me the National League is inferior, but let’s get serious. I keep expecting to see Gary Gaetti or Benji Gil as part of a double switch.”

  52. Brian McCann may never attempt another steal. (Also, I think his foot came off the bag.)

  53. So let me get this straight. Escobar wanted to start tonight, but Cox said no? And put out-of-position Infante at short instead of Lillibridge, and Infante made two errors to cost the Braves three runs?

    It’s like they’re trying to lose.

  54. Another beauty by Skip. “If I owned the Golden Moon Hotel and Casino, I would have a different logo…Marketing is everything.”

    He’s good for one a game.

  55. Believe it or not, Infante’s natural position is supposed to be shortstop. I actually don’t mind Escobar getting a day off here, it’s a long year yet.

  56. Mac,
    I like the Frenchy/Coldplay analogy, but I have one fundamental issue with it.

    You called Coldplay a rock band and, in my book, a rock band must rock. Coldplay is all craft & no rock.

    The Rock Hall in Cleveland is super-nice. I was really pleasantly surprised how much I liked it.

    Alan Freed was from Cleveland and the city had a lot to do with growing the popularity of rock. Plus, there have been a great number of cool Ohio rock acts—from Chrissie Hynde to Guided By Voices, from Devo to The James Gang. I’m not going to included The Romantics, though.

    But I have one question that trumps all for today: How ‘Bout Them Dawgs?

  57. But Skip, you don’t think the long arguments with umpires without instant replay make the game longer?

  58. Sure he’s a baseball player–a AA baseball player. Kidding aside, it just might be time for Jeffy to revisit the minors. He’s not just overrated by the Turner Field Hannah Montanas–he completely sucks.

    I’m leaving Monday for vacation–the way this team is playing it can’t come soon enough.

  59. The umpire could take a minute or 2 to watch a replay then make a call. I guess the other manager would then argue the overturned call, though.

  60. BTW, Francoeur’s crumminess shouldn’t come as a big surprise–he had a lower on base pct at Rome in 2003 than JS, Jr.

  61. Although the way it is now, the manager often just comes out to ask the umpire to consult with his friends. Besides you can complain about a split second call but if they get the instant replay how much can you really argue against it? I’m just glad we don’t have to worry about a stupid clock.

  62. Seriously is there actually a way to pitch to Frenchy ineffectively. No matter what the pitcher does he sucks.

  63. A first-pitch fastball above the waist isn’t a good idea. If you throw that to him, you should be fitted for thumbscrews.

  64. Who is Derek Lillibridge? I think Skip tried to combine Brent Lillibridge and Derek Lilliquist.

  65. 1. Well, if we tied it at least Jurrjens would be off the hook, but I’m sure we’d eventually lose anyway.

    2. Lilliquist and Lillibridge are actually similar in a way, in that they were hyped but couldn’t play. Well, maybe Lillibridge will eventually prove he can play, but I doubt it.

  66. Yeah, but Frenchy said yesterday that he will start hitting soon, “it’s just around the corner.” Unfortunately, the corner is an alley in Baghdad.

    I almost wish the Phillies would pull away so we could start planning for next year. But they keep losing. As it is, Wren and Cox will never say the Braves are out of it, no matter how bad the team is playing and no matter how apparent it is to everyone else that the team sucks. I guess Wren will trade the entire farm system for Randy Winn.

  67. KJ, Norton, Teixiera due in the 9th…Francoeur in the hole to kill the rally if one starts.

  68. Looking at those numbers, I think that Batista may be done. Though I’m sure he’ll make a miraculous recovery tonight.

  69. A guy with an ERA of 6 and opponent’s BA of .295, normally I would think there was a chance. “Heart” of the order up.

  70. Lee Elia? Apparently when the failed manager/bench coach takes over, they get an even older and more failed manager to take his job. If Riggleman is fired, Chuck Tanner will probably be Elia’s bench coach.

  71. Why would you even pitch him inside at this point ???

    He struck out on a ball so far inside that it nearly hit his nuts in the 2nd inning.

  72. I’m scared–the earth is surely going to open up tonight and swallow humanity!

  73. It’s a miracle !! It’s a miracle !! Honestly, if you hit Jeff Francouer to load the bases to pitch to Mac, you deserve to lose.

  74. I know its wrong to hope, but heres hoping a last inning one-run victory will put us on a nice little winning streak

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