224 thoughts on “Cormier era over”

  1. reposted:

    I’m now of the belief that the following things need to happen in order for UGA to make the championship game:

    Okla over Mizzou
    Pitt over WVU
    BC over VT
    Tenn over LSU

    I think the voters will leapfrog VT or LSU over UGA if either becomes a 2-loss conference championship. And neither is too far behind UGA in the computer standings — one more quality win might bump them, if not over UGA, then close enough for the voters to tip the balance.

    It’s not going to matter, as I don’t see any way that Pitt beats WVU. But if it did happen (and OKLA wins), prepare for some howling by Bulldog fans.

  2. Interesting note: I just saw over at si.com, Bill James ranked the top 50 “young” players in baseball, which is anyone under 30. Francoeur was 26, but Brain McCann didnt even make the cut. Kelly Johnson even made the list at 49. Any guesses on why Brian McCann wasn’t on

  3. And if the first three things on the above list happen, but LSU beats Tennessee, I’m fully prepared to blame Kirk Herbstreit for the Dawgs not making it….

  4. Eric — I just noticed that Bill James wrote something yesterday on si.com indicating that there might be something to clutch hitting. haven’t read it yet… but it mentions papi, chipper, and pujols.

    James works for Boston now, right? Looking for ways to make Papi actually clutch? heh heh. just kidding.

    What was the link to the list you were talking about?

  5. From the team rankings after the article

    16. Atlanta | Hitters: 884 | Pitchers: 301 | Total: 1185
    Grade A: Francoeur and Kelly Johnson
    Grade B: Brian McCann, Mark Teixeira, Chuck James, Yunel Escobar
    A year ago McCann rated very, very high after what may have been a fluke year.

    McCann had a fluke year and Francoeur didn’t? In 2007 they were virtually the same at the plate overall. McCann has a better history of walking and power. My guess is that Francoeur gets rewarded for playing a lot…but then why does KJ rate so high?

    Holy crap! I just reread the list. Mark Teixeira is Grade B. Something is missing.

  6. heard what Les Miles said today and dont believe a minute of it. He had to come out and say something because of the timing of the stories/rumors that are spreading. He’ll be at Michigan next season

  7. Yeah, I don’t buy the Miles press conference. Even his wording was a little shifty. He’s doing what he has to do to keep his team focused.

  8. I think age is the reason, as later on in the article is mentions that K-Rod is still young enough to be considered an A. I guess this means the Tex isn’t

  9. IIRC, James’ projection system wasn’t that high on McCann last season. Still, he was the second-best catcher in the NL last year, which should count for something.

    Beedee, the Publix thing is a running joke that probably only I remember. The Cormiers live in Northport in the offseason, as do I (all year-round). And they probably do shop at Publix, but at a different one than I do.

  10. I think a less impressive year at the plate last year and his ankle problems are factors.

  11. Re: BCS Projections

    I don’t blame Herbstreit if LSU jumps UGA – he’s an analyst and that’s his opinion.

    I blame that whiny, pathetic a–hole, Les Miles. He made me so physically sick with his whiny, political pandering this week, I was pulling 100% for Tennessee tonight. Screw you Miles. I hope Hawaii kicks your butt.

    (sorry, needed to vent…I have been festering over Miles this week, that Michigan wannabe).

    No way in hell should Virginia Tech jump UGA in anything. 2 loss teams…Georgia in the much, much tougher SEC and Virginia Tech got absolutely smashed by LSU.

    re: Cormier

    I am glad. I liked him because of his Bama background, but he wasn’t any good.

  12. chris (from the previous thread),

    Actually, I would love to get into a music “debate” with you. I like my chances. (FWIW, Bluegrass is much, much closer to Alt Country than Country music is.)

    Rob (from the previous thread),

    I was joking about the Wryn thing. I didn’t think you were being mean.

  13. (FWIW, Bluegrass is much, much closer to Alt Country than Country music is.)

    Really? Maybe my definition of Alt Country is different from you. Give some examples?

    I was joking about the Wryn thing. I didn’t think you were being mean.

    Alright good.

  14. I didn’t read last year’s top 50 so i didn’t know he didnt rank him high last year. How could you not have him ranked high after last year?

  15. Oh by the way, WVU 7 Pitt 13… 4th quarter
    &
    Missouri 14 Oklahoma 14… 3rd quarter

    Holy hell, LSU or Geogia might actually get back in this thing.

  16. Cary,

    I know, I can’t believe it. If Pitt and OU win and LSU jumps UGA into the BCS title game, Fat Phil will have screwed the Dawgs twice this year by virtue of losing the SEC title game.

    The whole Pitt thing is happening because Pat White got hurt – but if it gets the Dawgs IN, OH MY GOD, I will be dancing in the streets n red & black.

  17. Mac,

    Tell me about it; still, I can at least hope for Pitt and OU to win tonight and keep my fingers crossed.

    But Georgia has done everything right for 6 straight weeks to earn it; again, I will be thrilled for any BCS Bowl but being #4 and boht #1 and #2 possibly losing tonight, I will be very deeply saddened if we don’t get a shot at Ohio St. in the title game.

  18. Jake R. agrees with daddy…Herschel is the best college football player of all time and he wants the Dawgs in the BCS title game :-)

  19. I agree there’s no way Kansas should be in the national title game. NONE. Who have they beaten at all?

  20. csg,

    Georgia, not USC should be in – we are 4th in the BCS rankings. If they go by those standings, we should be in and if not, that’s BS not BCS.

  21. GA should be in, but they wont be cause they didnt play in the SEC championship game. You cant justify a title game when you dont even win your conference

  22. I’m sorry, I don’t agree – we are 4th in the BCS so what does the BCS mean?

    And what exactly, has frakking lSU earned? They just gave up 52 to unranked Arkansas. USC lost at home to unranked Stanford.

    Georgia has lost 2 also, but won 6 straight and done everything we were were supposed to do down the stretch.

  23. A team that lost to Stanford has no business whatsoever in the BCS title game over a team that lost both its games to bowl teams in overtime!

    Much as I think LSU is not great, they’re the best of the better than mediocre and deserve to go ahead of USC.

    Kansas and Georgia didn’t win their respective conferences so that knocks them from the discussion, in my opinion.

  24. Alex, I dont agree with it either, I’m just saying why they wont get the nod. I think GA could beat either OSU or USC right now, but ESPN/Voters wont see it that way.

  25. couldnt disagree more Cary and this is different than what you said previously to me.

    It SHOULD be Ohio State and Georgia for the BCS title.

    We earned it after being 4th in the BCS.

  26. and unlike Kansas, Georgia has beaten Florida, Ga. Tech, Auburn, Bama, Kentucky – plenty of quality opponents.

  27. csg,

    I know you are – no worries.

    I have a sick feeling we are going to get screwed on this.

    I almost wanted WVA to win tonight so I didn’t have to see Georgia have the chance at a BCS shot to only let voters/computers take it away.

  28. I said that I thought Georgia could beat LSU if they had made the title game, but they didn’t and weren’t SEC Champs.. that’s LSU.

    You can’t have non-champions in the CHAMPIONSHIP game. Period.

    I support Stu’s suggestion–no one gets the National Championship this year. You’re not good enough. None-a-ya’s.

  29. LSU lost in three OTs because of a well-known weakness (they can’t stop anyone in the red zone) and if they’re in a competitive game against a good team that’s going to rear its ugly head again.

  30. Alex, you can’t honestly believe that a team that can’t win its conference deserves to play for the national title. I get that, as a fan/alum, you want UGA to get a shot, but there is no legit argument that the Dawgs are more deserving than LSU of a shot at it.

  31. Stu,

    Until they create a BCS tournament, Georgia has EVERY RIGHT TO BE THERE.

    Mac’s right. Look at the nCAA March Madness Basketball tournament. Non conference champions win ALL THE TIME.

  32. Alex,

    No I wouldn’t. If it was Alabama in Georgia’s situation, I would acknowledge that we hadn’t earned the right to be there.

    I have always said that a team has to win its conference (or, hell, it’s Division! of the conference) to be considered for the National Championship.

    Nebraska’s presence in the 2003 BCS National Championship game over PAC-10 Champion Oregon when, like Georgia, it couldn’t even make it’s Conference Championship Game, was a travesty… You’ve said that!!!

  33. No, once they have a playoff, then UGA has an argument. Until then, in this system, which is completely unlike the basketball tournament, I think UGA is completely undeserving.

  34. Alabama officially claims as a national champion the 1941 team that did not win the SEC. It’s a very shady claim, and if they really want to claim twelve there are better options.

  35. I’ll give anyone who wants a shot to convince me that Georgia belongs in the National Championship game over LSU, but like Stu, I don’t think a very credible argument is possible.

    Aside from the little thing known as the SEC Championship, LSU lost both of its games in triple-overtime. Georgia lost 12-16 to South Carolina and 14-35 to Tennessee. Point LSU. Point LSU.

    Georgia is a good BCS quality team, but no National Champion. Maybe next year. The Dawgs should be strong, but you can’t get blown out and honestly think you’ve got a championship worthy team.

  36. People can throw conference championships in my face but that’s a sham. LSU has lost twice in the same span that Georgia’s won 6 straight.

    And Cary, I agree about Oregon in your example – but that Oklahoma team had gotten killed in the Big 12 title game – that should have dropped them back and it inexplicable didn’t.

    Georgia is the hottest team in the country.

    In 1997, the #6 seed Arizona Wildcats, a middle of the pack Pac Ten team became the hottest team in the country and won the NCAA March Madness.

    Were the Cardinals the best team in Baseball in 2006? No, but they were the hottest.

    No one disputes the Cardinals or Arizona. But Georgia? Suddenly the same respect isn’t shown.

    Typical.

  37. Like the undefeated 1966 team that would have been Alabama’s 3rd National Championship in a row, but.. Michigan State and Notre Dame tied and the, largely Northern, sportswriters decided that made Notre Dame the National Champion because…

    Bear Bryant said that was his best team. Travesty of justice.

  38. LSU lost to Arkansas on its last game of the season. Point UGA!

    UGA has not lost in like damn near two months. Point UGA!

    Put them Dawgs in the Championship game!

  39. Point lSU? Really Cary?

    52 points to unranked Arkansas.

    That’s total crap. I’m going to bed.

    But hey…ESPN agrees with you so I already expect to see us get screwed. It’s our lot in life so you can be happy with that.

  40. Then maybe Georgia should play for the NCAA Basketball Championship or the Major League Baseball Championship.

    The games and outcomes between basketball, baseball and football are very different which is why there are different systems for determining a champion for each sport.

    Or did MLB hold Fall Madness without my knowledge.

  41. Georgia can beat Tennessee if it doesn’t want to get “screwed.” LSU just did it. Point LSU.

    Besides, LSU gave up 22 of the 50 points in the three OVERTIMES, so they only allowed 28 in regulation. By comparison, Georgia allowed 35 to Tennessee in regulation, so I don’t see your point.

  42. The point is that LSU should have taken care of its business and they couldn’t do it. They’ve been exposed multiple times and it’s really quite shameful for anyone to entertain the idea that LSU should play for the MNC over the Dawgs. There. Thats the GD point.

  43. The 1945 team went undefeated and won the Rose Bowl (which for many years had been a de facto NC claim) but didn’t get the trophy. If they had trophies then.

  44. But Georgia “took care of business” better than LSU. Curious. They are both 10-2.. wait LSU is actually 11-2 because they just won the SEC CHAMPIONSHIP!

    Note that beating the Florida Gators is only worth one victory. A nice one, but only one just the same… and LSU did it too!

  45. I root for Georgia but I won’t let myself get too invested in college football for this very reason – the BCS, not conference championships, is a sham. There is absolutely no way Georgia gets into the championship game without playing for their own conference championship; it just won’t happen, no matter how much everyone here bitches and moans. I don’t like it but then, I can’t really argue with it. Personally, I think the best team in the country right now is USC, so if that’s who the Dogs get to play, then it’ll be a helluva game. But right now LSU looks like they’re gonna get in… sad but true.

    I have to admit, though: I love it when the BCS system implodes. This stuff never fails to amuse me. I mean, it’s so stupid, this system – it’s worked like once – and yet everyone knows nothing will change because of money. I’ll take NCAA basketball, thanks.

  46. Wow, I freaking love college football. WHAT DO YOU DO?! OSU? Obviously. UGA? LSU? USC? OU? Wow.

    I think Alex and Cary/Stu are making some good points. You can say what you want about not winning the SEC, but Tennessee and Georgia had the same amount of losses. The only difference is that Tennessee was fortunate enough to lose to a non-conference opponent (Cal) and stay in the lead in the East. Had Tennessee (who got totally destroyed by Florida) lost to an SEC opponent instead of Cal, Georgia would have played for the SEC title, and I think they would have beaten LSU. And at the end of the day, Georgia is the BCS #4 and you just can’t argue with that.

    The point still stands, though, that LSU won the SEC championship. They played an additional game against a very quality opponent and they won. The point is very valid that if you can’t win your conference, you can’t possibly be the best team in the country. I don’t think it’s that simple though, unfortunately.

  47. LSU lost twice in triple overtime.

    They won the SEC.

    If LSU and UGA were to match up at a neutral site, the vast majority would pick LSU to win.

    They’re the #2 team in the nation now IMO.

  48. It’s funny because the parity that has spread throughout college basketball made the sport much better – because there is a tournament. Everyone loves it, as now the underdogs can win and get in and win some more, and better yet, in the end you still have resolution. More schools are drawn into the mix and playoff caliber games erupt in November out of nowhere. In college football, on the other hand, more parity spells trouble for the powers that be, which is crazy when you step back and think about it. Seriously, think about the BCS’ ‘worst nightmare’: a competitive league where a bunch of teams have a shot at the championship. THAT’S THE WORST CASE SCENARIO???

    I’m going to bed too… college football has officially proven itself to be beyond hope.

  49. To hell with LSU. Put UGA in for cryin’ out loud. LSU has had TWO, count em, TWO chances at being number one and CHOKED both times! Enough is enough. LSU has no business playing in the championship game. They’re a bunch of frauds who gave up half a hundred to Houston Nutt. Houston Nutt!!!

  50. You have about 9 teams right now where are realistically very similar in quality. Shoot, even the 10th team (Florida) lost to two of those teams. We need a playoff.

  51. I wouldn’t be opposed to it. I actually think they’ll play with Ohio State; Brennan against that defense would be pretty cool. Plus, I’m still reliving the glory of Boise State in my mind…

  52. Richt is on ESPN right now making some great points about Georgia’s chances. There’s no rule that says you have to win your conference. This is total bull. Georgia should be there.

  53. Let it be known that Jesse Palmer doesn’t not reflect the views of the University of Florida or its fans. He’s the same guy that wanted Hawaii in a BCS bowl. Moron…

  54. They called a very iffy offensive holding on Pitt (downfield, past the markers, on third down, when they were running out the clock), then on the ensuing play missed an obvious defensive holding on what turned out to be an incomplete pass, letting WV get the ball back with two time outs left and a chance to take the lead.

  55. Consider this; Imagine how fantasticly exciting a playoff would be this year. Considering everything that’s happened and the teams involved it’s amazing to imagine what the lords of college football are actually screwing themselves out of a great playoff with fun, parity and unbreakability with this insane BCS system

  56. I don’t know if this has been pointed out, but Oklahoma lost the Big 12 championship and played for the national title that same year. I don’t like the Dawg’s chances, but I think they are as good a team as anyone right now.

  57. I have to say that I’m unimpressed with LSU. I admit that they probably are the most talented team in the nation and they started the season like the best team anywhere. I just can’t overlook what they’ve done over the second half of the season. They needed quite a bit of luck to squeak by both Bama and Auburn, they lost to both UK and Ark, and they didn’t exactly dominate against a mediocre FL team and SEC weakling Ole Miss.

    On the other hand, after stinking it up a/g UT and lucking up a/g Vandy, Ga has been pretty darn good a/g everyone. I’m not sure if Ga deserves a shot at the Nat’l title either, but IMO they have a better claim to it than LSU.

    I think LSU is looked on more favorably by the media and they probably have a better shot at the title game, unfortunately. LSU’s bowl showing last year also doesn’t hurt them.

  58. I’ve enjoyed reading this conversation, but something is missing, and I’m frankly shocked it hasn’t been mentioned, since this place is so SEC centric. Unless I have missed a new post since I started reading, nobody mentioned how utterly undeserving Ohio State is. They have the same claim Kansas does.

    The title game should be LSU-OU, for most of the reasons posted above with the addition that Ohio State sucks.

  59. LSU has had plenty of chances to be number one and play in the championship game this year. A third chance is getting a little ridiculous. They lost to Arkansas. Give me a break. I can hardly remember the last time UGA lost it was so long ago. And LSU did not look like the number two team in the nation versus UT today, either. Put the Dawgs in. Debate over.

  60. Hey, what’d I tell ya this morning?

    In any other week of the season, UGA would rise to #2 without an argument. But now that it’s for all the marbles, the equation changes. All of a sudden, everyone is comparing bodies of work, as though what went before was somehow different.

    Were the voters just blindly moving teams up and down before — why didn’t “body of work” determine the rankings then?

  61. The rankings for whom should be in the BCS Championship Game:

    1. Ohio State–yeah, they’re not great–no one is this year, but one-loss, Big 10 conference champion; respectable loss by 7 to a ranked bowl team; best victories: Wisconsin and Michigan(?) (yuck)

    2. LSU–again, not great, but SEC conference champion (best conference) with two losses to bowl-bound conference foes Kentucky and Arkansas in Triple-Overtime; best victories: Virginia Tech, Florida, Tennessee and Auburn

    3. Oklahoma–two-loss Big 12 conference champion with two losses to bowl-bound Colorado and Texas Tech; best victories: Missouri (twice) and Texas

    4. Virginia Tech–two-loss ACC conference champion; drilled by LSU 41-0, but avenged other loss to Boston College in ACC Championship; two losses to bowl-bound Conference Championship Game participants (no slouches); best victories: Boston College, Clemson and Virginia

    5. USC–two-loss PAC 10 conference champion; lost to bowl-bound Oregon (very respectable loss) and non-bowl eligible Stanford (the killer/knockout loss); best victories: Arizona State and Oregon State(?) (lacking)

    6. West Virginia–two-loss Big East conference champion with losses to bowl-bound South Florida and non-bowl eligible Pittsburgh (GAAAAK! the killer/knockout loss); best victories: Cincinnati and Connecticut(?) (lacking)

    7. (pending tonight vs. Washington, currently down 21-0 in 1st quarter) Hawaii–undefeated non-BCS WAC conference champion; no losses is a plus and only way to be considered; best victories: Boise State and nothing at all

    8. Missouri–two-loss Big 12 runner-up with both losses to the tormenters from Norman, Oklahoma (respectable losses); best victories: Kansas and Illinois

    9. Georgia–two-loss hot team with losses to bowl-bound South Carolina and Tennessee (Conference Championship Game participant); best victories: Florida and Auburn

    10. Arizona State–two-loss PAC 10 runner-up with losses to bowl-bound USC and Oregon (the best losses of any 2-loss team); best victories… Oregon State(?) (unfortunately, lost to only two good teams on schedule, really)

    No other team has less than three losses from a BCS conference and thus no case whatsoever.

    I could see moving Virginia Tech to #3 and Oklahoma to #4, but the 0-41 beatdown is very damaging. If you’re going to lose, be competitive.

    I could see moving Georgia up to #8 and Missouri to #9 easily. Kansas and Illinois rate as better wins, but I think Florida and Auburn are better victories. Both Georgia and Missouri have an ugly, non-competitive loss.

    Hawaii just scored to make it 21-7 in the 2nd quarter and is capable of coming back, so maybe they won’t absolutely eliminate themselves from having no chance. ;)

  62. Cary, that’s ridiculous. Georgia’s a lot better than most of the teams on that list. I can’t see ranking Missouri ahead of them as anything but baiting.

    To be honest, the only two-loss team I think has a real argument to be better than Georgia is USC.

  63. Despite getting a masters from UVa, I grew up a VT fan (how does that work?) and hope the Hokies slip in somehow — even though they don’t deserve it at all.

    The system isn’t really set up to reward the team that’s playing the best football lately (even if it is better to lose early than late). If that were really the case then UGA, USC, VT (maybe?) and maybe LSU would have good arguments to be there for the NC.

    I can’t stand the fact that OSU is going to get to the title game by not having any big wins and then just sitting and waiting. ugh.

    As we’d all seem to agree — this would be an incredible year for a playoff.

  64. Yeah, it is a little more impressive, but not much, and anyone who votes Kansas in the top five is kidding himself. I just don’t find the Ohio State argument compelling at all. They’d be at least touchdown dogs against OU, LSU, USC and Georgia.

  65. let’s play coulda woulda shoulda — if VT (the best special teams unit in the country couldn’t cover an on side kick?!?!) had beaten BC the first time and won out as ACC champs… would they be in even though they got completely worked by LSU?

    And as long as I’m playing what if — why not include my alma mater? If BYU would have beaten UCLA (who was decent then, then became crappy after injuries) and then hadn’t lost to Tulsa (complete letdown game from the previous loss to UCLA), then they’d be looking to sneak in and steal a championship like they did back in 1984. Oddly enough, the BCS seems rigged against such a thing happening… but it could have happened (except they would have to play a good team in the title game)… only “if”…

  66. Not baiting. Just ranking based on what teams have earned(!) instead of solely how good I think they are.

    The earned results are there–they are called conference championships and victories.

    To make an argument for the Championship Game, first you need to be a BCS conference champion. Thus the conference champions are considered first, 1-6, based on their body of work.

    Then other teams with records (in the loss column) equal to conference champions can make weak claims (along with undefeated non-BCS champs). They are ranked 7-10 based on their body of work.

    I’m not saying Hawaii is better than Missouri, Georgia and Arizona State (I don’t think they are), but I’m saying they have a better claim to the Championship Game.

    Yeah, right now I think Georgia is a helluva lot better than many of the teams ahead of them; however, in college football, we consider the entire body of work. Period.

  67. As far as #4 Georgia, #5 Kansas and #6 Virginia Tech being ranked ahead of LSU, that was before LSU won the SEC Championship. Since we now have this piece of information, we can leap LSU past those teams that don’t have a championship (Georgia, Kansas).

    I don’t claim to understand how anyone could put Virginia Tech ahead of LSU when they have the same record and LSU rape-standed them 41-0. That’s just freakin’ idiotic.

  68. Stapler and Eric, before I accuse you of being ball-less, why don’t you offer your rankings with explanation?

    Make a stronger argument. Or at least I could respect an attempt.

    Just curious. What are your team/conference rooting interests?

  69. Again, I wish Georgia had taken down Phat Phil and the Vols and waltzed past LSU into the BCS National Championship Game to pummel Ohio State. That would be great. Georgia is my 2nd favorite SEC team.

    However, the Dawgs, sadly, didn’t get it done, did they?

    If it makes you feel any better, neither did my team. We’re going to the frickin’ Independence Bowl and flamed out horribly at the end of the year. We’d be #56 or something in claims to the title.

    But better days are coming.

  70. Come on, Missouri?

    LSU beat Tennessee, who beat Georgia — but Georgia easily beat Kentucky, who beat LSU, and crushed an Auburn team that LSU probably should have lost to. Georgia didn’t get a chance to play for the championship because of a tiebreaker. Tiebreakers suck.

    Look, nobody, except maybe Ohio State, has a championship game body of work. Nobody has a really compelling argument for why they’re more qualified than anyone else. So I figure you might as well take whoever’s playing best now.

  71. Tiebreakers suck if it’s something like points allowed. But a head to head tiebreaker? How else are such things supposed to be decided? Would you rather have had BCS standings as the first tiebreaker or what?

  72. @106, david15, you are right, Ohio State’s claim is weak, but no one really has a good/significantly better one.

    The strongest part of the Buckeyes claim is that they have just one loss. The only other teams with the same or less are Kansas and Hawaii.

    Kansas did not win its conference like Ohio State, so OSU has a superior claim.

    Hawaii has no losses (pending, 14-28 Washington while raining, but Hawaii on the doorstep.. TD.. 21-28) but they only have one even decent victory (against Boise State, who lost to.. Washington).

  73. It’s not based on who is playing best right now.

    That’s the whole point.

    That’s why it’s my whole point.

  74. Civilized sports don’t have tiebreakers, they settle it on the field. What if Florida had beaten Auburn? Could easily have happened, and then Florida would have played in the SEC Championship against LSU because of the tiebreakers.

    Could be OU over LSU. I’m pretty sure that the teams playing the best now are Georgia and USC. I’m also pretty sure that OSU would much rather play LSU than Georgia or USC.

  75. Kansas had the same amount of conference losses as OSU though. OSU just happens to play in a shitty conference that neither has a championship game nor has each team play every other one.

  76. seriously the big10 is lame in its set up.

    and, while i’m at it, the big10 school that i currently attend (wisconsin) woefully underpays its grad students. heh heh.

  77. I can understand the argument that Georgia is playing best right now. I don’t much buy it, but I can understand it. I can’t see the argument for USC, however. Its only good win is at Arizona State, and I have been nowhere close to impressed by Arizona State.

    This system really sucks. It’d be awesome if we were looking forward to OU/Georgia and LSU/USC first round playoff games instead.

  78. Umm.. but Mac, you’re forgetting that the Ole Ball Coach and South Carolina beat Georgia.. and then went and lost to LSU just two weeks later!

    Both Georgia and Tennessee finished 6-2 in the SEC East (Florida was 5-3 and not involved). Tennessee layed a whoopin’ on Georgia 35-14, so they won the head-to-head tiebreaker. Doesn’t get any simpler than that.

  79. Tennessee’s loss to Cal had nothing to do with them appearing in the SEC Championship Game over Georgia, by the way, for the confusion @76.

  80. I said Missouri vs. Georgia’s claim to a NC appearance this year was a tossup. I could see Georgia ahead, but put Missouri ahead because:

    1) Missouri’s best victories over Kansas (BCS #5) and Illinois (BCS #15) rate better than Georgia’s victories over Florida (BCS #10) and Auburn (BCS #24)–5&15 > 10&24, makes sense, no?

    2) Missouri’s losses, both to Oklahoma (#9 BCS) at 31-41 and 17-38, rate better than Georgia’s losses to Tennessee (#14 BCS) at 14-35 and South Carolina (No BCS ranking) at 12-16. Plus, having one team own you is better than having two teams own you, right?

    3) Missouri finished the regular season 11-1 and lost in the Big 12 Championship Game. Georgia finished the regular season 10-2 and watched the SEC Championship Game.

    I think these are good points. I personally feel that Georgia would beat Missouri, but I don’t know it. So we let the body of work speak and it says…

    Missouri’s claim > Georgia’s claim

    There is a logic to it, no? What’s the counter argument: We’re better. They suck. ???

    And I’ll go so far as to say that I personally would put point #1 in Georgia’s favor because I *think* that Florida would beat Illinois (upcoming bowl game may determine this) and Auburn would beat Kansas (upcoming bowl game may determine this).

    That still leaves Missouri with points 2 and 3, so I listed Missouri ahead of Georgia.

  81. In my opinion, its unjustifiable that a team that does not win, or even make, their conference championship, make the national championship. Thats like arguing that an NFL team that doesnt make the playoffs should be in the Super Bowl.

  82. Except for the fact that they made the playoffs. Lets compare the SEC Championship to the NLCS. Saying that UGA should make the National Championship is like saying the Cubs should have played in the World Series this year, even though they didnt even make the NLCS.

  83. Oh, and I forgot to add Kansas at #11 on the list of BCS Championship claims above. Basically, they just didn’t beat anybody and don’t have the conference championship like Hawaii. I’ll be interested to see them play Auburn in the Cotton Bowl, though, perhaps.

  84. Basketball and baseball seasons are fundamentally different from college football seasons. Therefore, MLB wildcards, NCAA #6 seeds, etc. are irrelevant to the discussion.

    There are only 6 real, potential claims in a given year to appear in the BCS National Championship Game and they belong to the champions of the SEC, PAC 10, Big 12, Big 10, ACC and Big East Conferences. Some of those claims lose their potential relative to other conference champions in a given year.

    That’s why we say the season is a playoff, and Kansas, Arizona State, Georgia and Missouri were eliminated. There’s always next year.

  85. Stu

    i think your chances of even coming close to making any sense is a bit, well, it’s like styx’s second album: decent but over-confident and self-serving tripe.

    :-)

  86. Georgia doesn’t deserve to be in. We shouldn’t have lost to SC or Tenn. End of story. If we’d taken care of business against SC we’d be in. We didn’t. We’re out. Dawg Nation needs to accept this and look forward to a team that sniffed the NC game coming back almost entirely intact for another run at the title and a brutal schedule to help us prove our championship worth. I’m hoping they’ll be playing in Pasadena this year.

    LSU deserves it more than VT but only because they smoked the. OU has the powerful argument that one of their loses came in a game where they lost their starting QB (Bradford against TT). An OSU-OU championship game would make sense, but LSU will probably get in.

  87. I’m in L.A. & I watched the SEC title game and the USC/UCLA game in Westwood, on the UCLA campus. A fairly amusing experience and I must say that, with a few USC peeps in the house, most of the give-and-take was fairly civil (despite the abundance of booze) and that was really nice to see.

    It was a fun atmosphere, even though only 2 TVs (out of 100) had on the SEC game. I just needed one.

    As a Dawg fan, I’m not going to make any Erik Ainge jokes, but wow, that was an Big Orange Gag-o-rama. That game was there for Tennessee.

    And, as far as this BCS thing goes, I’m not going to offer too much because I think the system remains a joke. I hope the Dawgs play Ohio State, no matter what the stakes. But that’s because I work with an OSU grad & I wanna get the chance to haze him. (Plus, I don’t really wanna play West Virginia or Virginia Tech again.)

    And if it’s LSU-Ohio State, I’ll root for LSU just the same.

  88. fwiw

    i don’t care about the BCS anymore…

    recruiting season has started…

    and some of your recruits, SEC people, are gonna get stolen away.

    go get ’em Butch/Blake

  89. I actually think that LSU’s performance in the SECCG should take them out of the BCS championship game picture. They sure as hell didn’t play like the number 2 team in the country and UT practically gave LSwho the game anyhow. Bottom line, put the Dawgs in the MNC, not the LSU trash.

  90. Bring on the Dawgs!! LSU has finished the season ugly and I would not care if Miles went to Michigan either.

    That said, I wonder what will happen if LSU barely beats Ohio State (after last year’s humiliation–a team not to underestimate)and then lets hope UGA crushes USC…Is LSU still the undisputed national champion? They wouldn’t be in my books….

  91. well, seeing that wake forest was in the orange bowl last year and they’re in NC…

    and that we DO have a history of success on the gridiron…

    i suppose some of you will be eating crow in a year or two.

  92. I hate to burst every UGA fan’s bubble, but they actually did beat UT, something UGA did not do. The game honestly should not have even been that close. LSU outgained UT by over 121 yards. After the first series LSU played their best defense since the beginning of the year.

    I actually think if you look at the teams that would be eligible, the 3 teams with the best resume are LSU, OU, and UGA. I just have a hard time getting over that blowout the UGA took from UT.

  93. Too bad Georgia won’t get a chance to beat USC or Oklahoma. If LSU plays Ohio State, UGA will go to the Sugar Bowl – the system keeps the best teams from playing each other so there’s no “controversy”. USC will go to the Rose, and Oklahoma to the Fiesta, and everyone will be matched up with relative “cupcakes” so no one can lay claim to a title.

  94. then lets hope UGA crushes USC…Is LSU still the undisputed national champion?

    Yeah good luck with that. Doesn’t matter, a USC-Georgia Rose Bowl died with Pat White’s injury. USC will end up with Illinois or some other overmatched team in the Rose Bowl now. It’s a shame, it would have been fun to beat Georgia.

  95. @133 – I’m also a Wisconsin grad student, and I’m also disgusted by the pay. And yes, I’m also down on Big-10 play…

    Wait, Illinois can land in a BCS game? I can’t understand that. I’m on the verge of forgetting about college football forever.

  96. Wait, Illinois can land in a BCS game? I can’t understand that.Wait, Illinois can land in a BCS game? I can’t understand that.

    Sure can. They are high enough in the BCS rankings to be selected at large and since the Rose Bowl committee loves it’s tradational Pac10-Big10 matchup and will lose Ohio State, Illinois could be likely. What a bore.

  97. I would think the Rose Bowl committee would rather have a team that travels and garners more national attention – like, say, Georgia. I know tradition matters to these people, but I think you’re reaction of ‘what a bore’ will not be the only one like that. What’s funny is this is coming from someone who actually respects Illinois; I think they’re 2nd best in the Big-10, I’ve seen them play, I just don’t think they’re BCS material. (whatever the hell that means)

  98. #158 – You are right about everything except that the Sugar Bowl needs an SEC team and with LSU probably going to the title game, Georgia is it. That leads the Rose Bowl committee to pick from the crappy at large teams out there (Kansas, BC, Illinois, yuck). Illinois becomes the most likely to be made roadkill on New Year’s Day.

    It’s a pretty depressing season when neither of the two best teams (OU and USC) are playing for the crystal football. Usually the system gets at least one right.

  99. Let me just clarify that under this system Ohio State and LSU are the “right” teams to be playing for the title. Those births are a reward for your season’s resume and Ohio State and LSU have the two best.

  100. So, basically, Georgia fans would best be served by Oklahoma somehow leapfrogging everyone and getting into the title game, LSU going to the Sugar, and that would leave Georgia free to play out west. But the chances of that happening are nearly impossible.

    It’s gonna be LSU… sigh. It’s like #7 playing #9 for the championship, only neither did much – like run through a tournament – to get there.

  101. Re: Illinois for the Rose Bowl — assuming UGa and Hawaii are high enough in the BCS this week to garner automatic bids and that Kansas is not, that leaves two at-large spots. The list of remaining eligible teams goes something like this:

    Kansas -or- Missouri (only one can make it)
    Arizona State
    Illinois
    Clemson -or- Boston College (depending on rankings)

    No one else will be high enough in the final BCS standings to be eligible.

    So, if you are a BCS bowl, it boils down to Illinois and Arizona State. Illinois may not be a national power, but they will draw a heck of a lot more at least on television than would Arizona State. For the Rose Bowl, that one is a no-brainer; USC won’t play Arizona State there.

  102. I obviously agree with Robert that OSU and LSU have earned the right, such as it can be called “earned” this year, to play for the National Championship, but I disagree about the best teams right now.

    Georgia has as good a claim as anyone to be the best team right now. Oklahoma just lost to Texas Tech a couple weeks ago. Meanwhile Georgia was defeating Florida and pasting Auburn. If we’re throwing out conference championships to talk about who *looks like* the best right now, I start with Georgia.

    Then there’s USC. Tough to get a read on them since Arizona State is the only team of note they beat, but with the recruits they’ve brought and the talent you can see on the field, I’d be comfortable saying they could be in the top 3. They’re not the world beaters they were made out to be though. Hardly.

    Still LSU is the only “National Championship” caliber team I’ve seen this year. Of course, that was back in September. It should be noted that Oregon and West Virginia (and Oklahoma to an extent) went down behind their backup QBs, but LSU was victorious.

  103. Bottom line, the who’s best *right now* argument should make little difference vis a vis the season’s body of work.

    They’re not playing the BCS National Championship Game tomorrow, or even next Saturday, but in about a month.

    It’s at least as reasonable to assume that LSU will get healthy and become the monster that started the season blowing out MSU and VT before the SEC gauntlet took its toll than an argument can be made for any other team.

  104. UGA ran the “SEC gauntlet” and got better and better. Therefore, they deserve to play in the MNC game, as opposed to LSwho, a team that was slowly exposed as a bunch of media-darlin’ frauds.

  105. You know what, Oregon was also National Championship caliber before losing Dennis Dixon. It’s a real shame that he went down.

    Pat White’s injury last night is disppointing too. WVU was good enough with him, but folded without him. It’s not like the defense allowed much–it’s surprisingly decent to pretty good this year.

  106. Yeah, stapler, I guess the Dawgs didn’t expend much losing to Tennessee. You can’t sweep that under the rug.

    LSU beat every league team that Georgia played except Kentucky, to whom they lost on the road in Triple Overtime and Vanderbilt, whom they did not play (Georgia had a stirring 20-17 win over Vandy). This included both the South Carolina and Tennessee teams that beat Georgia.

    Georgia faced every league team that LSU did except for Arkansas. They did beat Kentucky, but lost to South Carolina and, embarassingly and noncompetitively to the Vols 14-35.

    Out of conference, Georgia beat Georgia Tech. LSU rolled over Virginia Tech, which happens to be the conference champion from GA Tech’s conference.

    You’re aware that September and October do not constitute pre-season exhibition football, right? Right?!

  107. Georgia also didn’t have to play the bowl-bound Alabama state champion Mississippi State Bulldogs either. My bad.

    Would you rather play Vandy? or Arkansas and Mississippi State? Things that make you go hmmmm… derpy-derrrr

  108. People actually think that OSU has a enough of a resume to be able to judge them. Their most impressive win is what? Michigan? Penn State? I think this is what irritates me the most about OSU making the MNC game. They have played no one. They have the 60th ranked strength of schedule. They are going to back their way in to the game despite doing nothing to prove they belong. I hope the game is competitive, but I have seen nothing from them to make me think it will be.

  109. LSU or Georgia should crush OSU–but after their humiliation last year, I expect them to play a much better football game. Either LSU or Georgia need to be prepared to play–they cannot assume that because they will be playing the Buckeyes, that they will automatically win.

    Let me add that if West Virginia had managed to beat Pittsburgh it would be worse: their schedule is an absolute joke–but had they won it would be WVU-OSU for the national title…..

  110. In other news….

    Next year in the East is gonna be crazy. Both UGA and UF return most of their team, and both were playing some of the best football anywhere as the season was winding down. I think next years’ game in Jacksonville is going to determine the SEC champion and (probably) who gets a shot to play in the national championship.

    Can’t wait!

  111. OSU is just a well coached football team that wins the games it should. There was not a team on OSU’s schedule that realistically should have beaten them. They just didn’t play anyone good and lost to the best team they did play.

    Their record says title game but their resume does not. There are two loss teams who beat far better opponents than OSU did this season. The BCS overvalues not losing. Hence Kansas being ranked #2 at one point.

  112. “LSU has lost twice this season while ranked #1. They shouldn’t get a third shot.”

    That’s as irrelevant/useless as tits on a boar. What the hell does that matter? They lost twice by an eyelash (3OT). Big whoop, look at the other teams angling for the championship game, all were worse.

    If they’d been ranked #3 or #5 or something, you wouldn’t have the same problem with it? What’s so special about losing when ranked #1?

    If it makes you feel any better, LSU would probably be #2 and not #1 (rolls eyes).

  113. Just because you say something is “irrelevant/useless” does not just magically make it so. The fact that they keep choking is extremely relevant. LSwho has had enough chances. Let’s get someone else in there. It’s really quite shameful to even try and make a case for LSU after they had Houston Nutt put up half a hundred on them — last week!

  114. LSU’s resume is not much better than UGA’s if any. The two teams that beat LSU were collectively worse than the ones that beat UGA (Barely). The teams LSU beat were better collectively than the teams UGA beat, in my opinion. Of the teams they both beat: UGA beat Auburn and Florida more convincingly than LSU did. Both teams barely beat Alabama. LSU beat both the teams that beat UGA. UGA beat one of the teams that beat LSU (didn’t play the other). Both teams lost once at home and once on the road.

    Take your pick really, there is hardly anything separating them.

  115. I’m crossing my fingers that somehow, someway , Virginia Tech jumps UGA and LSU and holds off Oklahoma. It’s a longshot, but it’s possible. /hope/

  116. As pointed out before, LSU allowed 28 in regulation and 22 in three overtimes. By your rationale, it is unfortunate that they also scored 28 in regulation because that allowed them to give up 40 to Houston Nutt. How many TDs did Nutt have by the way? I guess you could have mentioned Darren McFadden, but you must not consider him relevant.

    I mean, they could have allowed 35 points in regulation and only scored 14. That’d be much better. hahahah.. ridiculous

  117. Well I just looked and the AP poll has UGA at 4 and VT at 5. Bah. LSU at 2 and Oklahoma at 3. Lame lame lame.

  118. OU went down with their backup “to an extent?” They were winning in the first quarter when their starting quarterback was concussed. Then the backup came in and stunk up the place. It was to as big of an extent as any other team who lost with its backup.

    I have no problem with LSU being ranked higher than OU (even though it looked terrible yesterday). I do have a problem with any other team in the country being ranked higher. The stories of Georgia’s resurgence have been greatly exaggerated.

  119. .. because that allowed them to give up 50 to Houston Nutt.. I mean

    Dix, everything you say is true. That’s good analysis.

    There’s not much difference, but the separating factors for me are 1) LSU’s SEC Championship and 2) the manner of LSU’s and Georgia’s losses–LSU has two highly competitive overtime losses vs. Georgia’s one competitive regulation loss and one completely noncompetitive regulation loss.

  120. david15, fair enough about your point regarding Oklahoma losing to an extent because of QB injury. You’re right. I was wrong not to put them on equal footing with Oregon and WVU on that score.

  121. I think the more important factor, though, is that OU never lost at home. All the other teams in the conversation did, and that should damn near be disqualifying.

  122. Well, we have two teams that got blown out on their second to last games of the season playing for the MNC. What a load of garbage. UGA got screwed. How the hell does OSU always move up in the polls when they’re idle but UGA can’t seem to get that luck. And to make it even worse I sure as hell don’t want UGA to play Hawaii in the Sugar. I’m on the Hawaii bandwagon right now and don’t want to see them lose.

  123. Here’s an analogy to Georgia’s situation that I agree with: If Notre Dame as an at large team had the same record (even with a lesser schedule than UGA), they’d be the #2 ranked team in the country, no questions asked.

  124. UGA got screwed.

    They didn’t win their division within thier conference. They were never seriously in the discussion.

    A Georgia-Hawaii Sugar Bowl seems like a lock at this point. Yawn.

  125. Ohio State losing by 7 and LSU losing by 2 were “blown out”?

    stapler, you’re hopeless. Yeah, UGA got screwed, royally SCREWED!.. by Mark Richt.

    Get your team ready to be competitive, Coach, and don’t be tardy about it.

  126. has anyone here watched Frank TV? Does anyone else think its annoying and they should take it off the air? or is it just me

  127. The stories of Georgia’s resurgence have been greatly exaggerated.

    True.

    They didn’t win their division within thier conference. They were never seriously in the discussion.

    Also true.

    The up-in-arms Georgia people are reacting with their hearts, not their heads. Not that I don’t understand the inclination to do so, but come on, enough’s enough.

  128. Rob,

    Forgot to respond to the Alt Country question from before. Let me start by saying that, when I think of “Country Music”—especially in the context of someone saying, “I don’t normally like Country…”—I think of Toby Keith and similar performers.

    So I think Alt Country—Wilco, Son Volt, Ryan Adams, Old 97s, etc.—is not very much like that brand of Country music at all. Song structures, chord progressions (heck, the use of more than one chord at all), instruments used, and other factors make Alt Country much closer to Bluegrass, it seems to me. (And whether Rawlings & Welch should be considered Alt Country—at least exclusively—is highly debatable, IMO, given the number of bluegrass tunes they play when paired together.)

    Now, if by “Country Music,” you’re thinking more along the lines of Johnny Cash, the distinction I drew isn’t a good one. I just didn’t think many people meant Johnny Cash when they make that reference.

  129. As a Dawg fan and undoubtedly also an SEC homer, I can live with LSU going to the Championship to play Ohio State. We had our chances. We are looking forward to a New Year’s Day trip and a run (aginst a 10 bowl team schedule) next year.

    But, also, the system has usually been “what have you done lately?” Georgia clearly wins under that system.

    The bigger issues are (1) if anybody other than LSU keeps Georgia out and (2) why is Ohio State in, anyway?

    The conference (SEC) proved itself last year with Florida’s rout. No, Dix, Michigan did not get screwed worse. When all else fails the human polls should try to avoid an intra conference game. The RESULT of the game show that a team that couldn’t beat Ohio State had no business being in and keeping Florida out.

    The travesty would be if, in Georgia not going, that no SEC team went, but rather Oklahoma or USC vaulted to the top. Both are probably quite good teams, but USC has only won two games from winning teams all year and still lost two while Oklahoma lost badly to a team worse than either of the ones Georgia lost to and fairly badly to another that isn’t any bettr than South Carolina.

  130. How did Michigan get screwed last year? They were destroyed by tOSU and then destroyed by USC. There is no rational argument at all to be made that they were screwed in any way. Unless by screwed you mean manhandled on the field.

  131. Oklahoma didn’t lose badly to anyone. It lost by seven to Texas Tech on the road and on a last second field goal in Boulder. Texas Tech is currently ranked about 26, close to Arkansas and much better than South Carolina. Colorado has the same record as Carolina. You’re just making stuff up, Cliff.

    As for what have you done for me lately, OU just beat the number one ranked team by 21 at a neutral site. Where was Georgia on Saturday?

  132. Oh please God let’s not talk about Michigan and last season. This season is bad enough.

    All of the preceding posts prove just how stupid the system is…

    And Richt better have his boys ready to play the Sugar. I seem to recall his heavily-favored team getting shell shocked against West Virginia three years ago.

  133. Arkansas is a reference, obviously, to LSU’s loss at home, not Georgia. Getting blown out by a crappy Tennessee team isn’t anything to be proud of, however.

  134. Adam M, I have no recollection of any games against West Virgina over the last couple of years. You must be mistaking UGA for someone else.

  135. The primary problem I have with OSU going to the championship game is that it rewards the Big-10 for not having a conference championship game (though it may need another team to have one). Then again, I do think OSU is on the same level as LSU, UGA, USC, and OU, even if a lot of folks here will disregard them out of hand. But let’s see what happens on the field.

    It’s also kind of interesting b/c Les Miles could be coaching against Tressel for a long time to come… and he ain’t as good as Tressel.

  136. Oh yeah, the 2005 season. That was that fluke year where the SEC champion did not receive a bowl invite. Yeah, what a weird season that was.

    Man oh man that was a bad loss.

  137. Mac, looks like it’s official. Your Crimson Tide vs. my Colorado Golden Buffaloes. Your thoughts ??

    CU played the third toughest schedule in the nation and I believe were the only team to play four teams that were in the top 10 at some point (granted they only went 1-3 vs Oklahoma, Mizzou, Kansas and Arizona State).

    Should be a good matchup and hopefully payback is in order for the ’91 Blockbuster Bowl matchup, Just kidding about that.

  138. Yes! Georgia gets matched up against another scrappy ass team with nothing to lose in a game that Georgia has nothing to gain! All right! I can’t wait for Georgia to not show up until the third quarter and then lose the game on a fake punt followed by a 70 yard hook and ladder pass play! Who needs a playoff? Seriously, not me!

  139. I’m disappointed in the BCS selections. I’m alright with LSU/OSU, but Illinois/USC? Come on. Georgia and Hawaii? Boo. Oklahoma/WVU is a good one, but the other two are awful. Hawaii/Illinois and UGA/USC would have been a ton better, in my opinion. Shame on you, BCS. Shame on you.

  140. Allow me to second Rob. What a joke. At least now I don’t have to watch.

    Let’s talk about the winter meetings instead…

  141. You know..I can’t believe this… everything is changed whenever I’m far away from my home.
    BTW, how was Mrs.C’s response against your trying to get your reaction? haha….

  142. Mac, you really think so ?? I think it will be a pretty close game. CU’s offense isn’t all that great and didn’t really put up any points (except for Nebraska, which was very sweet, but everybody put up points on Nebraska this year). CU started the most freshman they ever have this year and have the LB that should (but won’t) win the Butkus award in Jordan Dizon. I know Bama didn’t exactly finish the year on a roll, but neither did CU.

    I know it’s a crappy bowl game, but after you see your once proud university go 2-10 and lose to a IAA opponent last year, it’s pretty exciting to go to a bowl, even if it is a crappy one. CU is definately headed in the right direction.

  143. I wish the Dawgs were playing Ohio State, but I don’t get bent out of shape about it because the way we determine Division 1 “national champions” is the silliest thing in all of organized sports, including figure skating.

    And I don’t know how anyone can honestly say they know who the best 2 teams are at this point. Without a playoff, that’s an impossible determination.

  144. Am I the only person here who is hoping for a Hawaii win? They didn’t lose a game, and they score close to 50ppg. They are very exciting to watch. If they beat UGA (I’d give them about a 10% chance of doing this), it keeps the mysterious question alive of ‘would they have ever lost if there were an actual system to determine a champion?’

    They didn’t have a tough schedule this year (though I think they had a few games with Alabama in the past) but that’s probably less intentional cupcaking-the-schedule and more the reality of their travel situation (and the fear that powerhouse schools have of playing them… reminds me of how GT would never play GSU in hoops while Lefty Driesell was coach.)

    Does anyone NOT want a playoff at this point?

  145. I generally like Hawaii (the state & their school’s team), but, as a UGA grad, I want to smash their surfboards & send them back to their Maui Wowee & bowls of poi.

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