Teixeira trade finalized, probably

Teixeira trade finalized with Rangers | ajc.com

I don’t report these things until DOB or Peanut do, but it appears to be all done but the paperwork. (Peanut weighs in here.)

It’s a whole lot. The deal would include Saltalamacchia, Andrus, Matt Harrison, and an unknown prospect, apparently not Dan Smith or Thomas Hanson since it’s said to be a “lesser” prospect. Some reports have it as Neftali Perez, who might be something but is a long way away; he hasn’t even pitched A-ball yet. The Braves also get Ron Mahay in the deal. Mahay replaces Fredo Ledezma, whom we acquired for a perfectly good LOOGY.

Teixeira’s a terrific hitter, and not just a creation of Arlington. It’s a good trade; a year and a third of Teixeira and a chance to sign him long-term is worth prospects whom the Braves don’t really need. The Rangers do nicely too. It’s not really necessary for anyone to win a trade.

I’ll get player analyses up eventually, once it’s official.

438 thoughts on “Teixeira trade finalized, probably”

  1. From CNN.SI: “The Braves are not expected to pursue a long-term contract with Teixeira, who is due to become a free agent after the 2008 season.”

    Not at all? I’d think they’d be able to talk assuming Andruw is gone.

  2. Better not be Hanson or I’ll say we really got hosed. ‘Course, I’m not too excited about losing Feliz, either. He’s a pretty exciting prospect. And I kinda thought we were getting hosed before we gave up another prospect.

    Oh well. We should at least have a nice two-year window in which we’ll have to get something done. The offense is really quite dynamic now. Our 8-hole hitter is going to be Matt Diaz or Kelly Johnson now. It’s definitely the best lineup in the NL, and I’m willing to say it’s close to the best in MLB.

  3. Andy-

    My guess is that they’re saying we’re not going to try to get him to sign an extension right now. I imagine Schurholtz at least intends to present an offer at this point, and even if he doesn’t, he certainly wouldn’t rule something 15 months away out.

  4. And for the triple post:

    ESPN is reporting that Feliz is going and says the other prospect is TBD. So we’ve got some saying Harrison is going, others saying Feliz is going….

    My guess is it’ll be Feliz + someone rather than Harrison + someone. Which might actually be worse for ATL.

  5. mraver’s right.. our offense is definately one of the top in baseball, maybe a little behind the Tigers and Red Sox..

  6. Is anyone knowledgeable enough to come up with a top 10 pitching prospects list? I’ve heard Hanson and Smith thrown around, but I had only heard of Jo Jo, Matt Harrison, and recent draft picks as top prospects. Does a current list exist? Not something by baseball america done at the beginning of the season?

  7. Let’s not try to win ever. Let’s just hold onto every A and AA prospect because there’s a 1 in a million chance they might become All-Stars years from now. Sigh.

    I’m very happy about this trade. I wonder if JS plans anything else now perhaps for a lesser starting pitcher who would nonetheless be better than the black hole that has been the 5th slot in the rotation.

  8. I still think another trade for a starter is in the works. Surely someone will take Davies and Thorman off our hands.

  9. talkingchop.com has a top 25 prospects list from the beginning of the season. You can just look at the top pitchers on that list. It’s on the left sidebar.

  10. And then 6-10 would probably include some relievers and starters. Maybe Locke, Richmond, Rohrbough, Devine, Medlen?

  11. I like both Feliz and Hanson better than Harrison. At least those guys have some upside. Without Feliz, there are only one or two guys in the entire system who have a 1 or 2 starter upside, which troubles me given Smoltz’s age and balky shoulder.

    I dunno. If we win the WS this year, all will be forgiven, but as it stands we’re still a longshot to make the playoffs, even with Teixeira.

  12. Will we make another move in the next 35 hours? Is Silva a better option than Jo Jo Reyes at this point? Could we get him cheap considering his losing record?

  13. A long shot? We are only a couple of game out of the wild card and the division and we play all the teams a head of us in the East next week.

  14. I think Feliz was a little over-hyped because he approached triple digits on the gun. His secondary stuff needs a lot of work. This is in response to the BA top 100 which basically said he was our 3rd best prospect which is absurd.

  15. Stu, I hear what you’re saying. It’s worth remembering that the whole reason we can make this trade is the Braves have had a very productive farm system for a very long time. 18 year-olds, even very talented 18 year-olds, are much easier to come by than cleanup hitters.

  16. I’m glad I didn’t have to read some of these comments back in ’93 when JS turned such memorable prospects as Melvin Nieves into Fred McGriff.

  17. Melvin Nieves is the next Barry Bonds and we gave him up for a guy who can only hit 35 bombs a year and drive in 115. In 1999 Nieves will be passing Aaron on the all time home run list and be wearing his 3rd ring!

  18. Tex over the last 3 years…

    2003: 38/112rbi/.370ob/.560slg/ .281BA
    2004: 43/144 /.379ob/.575 / .301
    2005: 33/110 /.371ob/.514 / .282

    Quit complaining and be thankful we have a legitimate superstar at 1st base.

    Do you know who JS gave up to get Fred McGriff? Melvin Nieves…remember him?

    We can still get a lefty out there…believe me.

  19. What are some of you guys thinking? Giving up bums who have no ceiling in order to get a superstar like Tex? Get real.

  20. I gotta say: I like this trade. Sure, we gave up a lot but we got a bona-fide SuperStart in return. We definately have a shot(a pretty good one) to win the NL East now and a good shot to go deep in the playoffs. I’m sorry to see some of our great prospects go but as someone said: They are just prospects until thye actually do something.

  21. I think JS should have just held Jon Daniels upside down in the cafeteria and shook him until Mark Teixiera fell out of his pockets.

  22. Just went to my deli on the corner. Owned by a Braves fan, operated by Met fans. Just told them about the Tex deal & they reacted like they just got punched in the gut.

    One guy said: “You guys always come up with something, and we’re supposed to get excited about getting Luis Castillo. Looks like this one’s going to go to the wire.”

    Me: “That’s the idea.”

  23. I bet Woodward gets sent down and little JS comes up . . . The only chance he has to ever play pro ball is while JS, Sr. is still the GM

  24. Just read in the Dallas Morning News that the Rangers will likely play Salty at 1B for the remainder of this season. It will be interesting to see how plays there on a consistent basis.

    Whats with CNNSI saying we do not plan to pursue signing Tex to a deal. Why would we rule that out 15 months before the fact?

  25. This is a great trade. Tex is a seriously good player and he fills a gaping hole we were plugging with a catcher. And he’s not just a one season rental. We get him for the stretch in a contending year AND another year.

    For what? A catcher blocked by an extremely young two time all star and a shortstop behind Escobar in the organization. These are blocked prospects that we had to trade eventually, and JS was able to get a truely awesome hitter with them. This is fantastic.

  26. Fun New top 10 prospect list?

    1. Tommy Hanson
    2. Brandon Jones
    3. Kala Kaaihue
    4. Joey Devine
    5. Jamie Richmond
    6. Dan Smith
    7. Cody Johnson
    8. Cole Rahrbaugh
    9. Eric Campbell
    10. Will Startup

  27. Who is the odd man out? Which one of these guys would get dropped to account for roster space if needed?

    Thorman, Woodward or Julio? Woodward can play LF if ever needed, right?

  28. Well, I think you all know my position on this trade. And that we got back a reliever too makes it even better. This trade should make us a playoff team. Once again, the people who say it’s a long shot forget about the existence of the wild card, but we may be the best team in the NL East already with this trade. Trade for a starting pitcher and we may be the best team in the National League. If you wanna give that up on the off-chance that we’ll be good in 2009, I suggest you become a Pirates fan or something. This is a huge, huge deal.

  29. Does every trade the Braves do have to be titled by ESPN as “Brave New World”

    Grow up ESPN- oh wait forgot you still let Stuart Scott say Booyah and Chris Berman say anything.

  30. I still say the Braves keep Thorman. He’s had less than a full season at the big league level and he will not clear waivers. Having 2 1B on the bench may not make the most sense but if they decide Woodward over Thor they will lose him.

  31. Thorman has most upside

    Woodward is most versatile

    Julio adds most to clubhouse.

    I think the clubhouse is least valuable/overated. Plus, it’s not like we’re really lacking in there. I’d dump Julio, but it’ll probably be Thorman.

  32. Myth of the Braves farm system. We have developed good to excellent everyday players including most of the present lineup. Name me a stud pitcher we have developed in the last 5 years. Lets hope that crew at Danville turns out they look good.

  33. I feel there’s a lot of support for this trade based on “these guys are potential, not talent”. While that’s partially true, it’s also partially not.

    Andrus is already MLB-ready defensively. At this point, his floor is Tony Pena, Jr. Granted, that’s nothing spectacular, but it’s still an MLB-level player that you don’t have to pay jack to for 3 years and control cheaply for another 3. That’s valuable to a team. Consider that it’s one less Chris Woodward you have to go out and sign.

    Salty has already shown that he can hit MLB pitching to some extent, and he’s shown that he can play behind the plate at least as well as our current catcher. That right there is also valuable. Two years of not paying a backup catcher who is a more-than-capable bat off the bench is valuable to a team as well.

    So right there, we’re giving up two players who already have MLB-level value and who cost nothing for a total of 5 years. Add in the fact that Salty is also almost a lock to be an at-least-average starting C and will likely be above-average, and we’re starting to talk some serious value. For example, Ramon Hernandez is getting paid $6.5M this year. Bengie Molina is getting $4M, LoDuca $6.6M. And this is if Salty doesn’t develop much. Posada is getting over $10M. So the way I think about it is we’re trading away $8M in value over 3 years for someone we’ll pay $12M for maybe $20M of production (if we’re REALLY lucky) for 1 year.

    You can do the math; $20M in production – 12M in salary = $8M in “value” we’re getting. Which is about the same as the floor value of what we’re trading away. Oh, and what we’re losing will be around for 2 or 3 years instead of 1. Oh, and I didn’t even include arbitration years, which certainly adds value. Or the two pitching prospects, which could certainly flame out but could also turn out well. And who knows, maybe Andrus can turn into Furcal or Renteria or whatever comp you wanna make. And then we just look like complete idiots.

    This trade makes Atlanta better for 2007, and I think we’ll have a legit shot at the playoffs and WS. But the team will be worse off from 2008 on.

  34. Why do you even visit ESPN.com’s main page or main baseball page? All they do is steal scoops and reprint them. You might as well use an rss aggregator for that.

    I like their stats (in conjunction with hardballtimes), and I like their standings. I don’t stray beyond those two parts of the site.

  35. I’m guessing Thorman since he can only play one position and is now blocked by two people. And somebody will have to go down because Pena is filling Salty’s spot, remember.

    The real question is which pitcher goes down for Mahay? I guess probably Ascanio again? He’s looked pretty good, though. Might we take this chance to jettison somebody? Although come to think of it, Paronto has looked alright in his last couple outings, and he would’ve been the obvious choice. So my guess is Ascanio.

  36. Also, I think we’re the favorites to win the WC now, and give us a 40% chance to catch the Mets. Luckily, we get to play them a lot down the stretch. A nice 6-3 record against ’em down the stretch should do the trick.

  37. Somehow I can picture the ageless one in Bobby’s office right now: “I know you love me Bobby. I’m still starting at first base, right?”.

  38. Name me a stud pitcher we have developed in the last 5 years.

    Right. We throw pitching prospects into every trade we make, which is why we can’t fill out the back of our rotation or bullpen. We’ve tossed two more into this deal.

    If you plan to retire as a Braves fan when JS/Cox/Smoltz do, this is a great deal for you. If not, well, enjoy this next 50 games or so because you are going to be paying for them for a while.

  39. Like Joey T #46 – this is like acquiring Huddy for me. We have been so inept at 1B for too many years. It is a sluggers spot. Hopefully Texy’s gold glove will give us a lift too.

    Even money Matt Diaz is not wearing #23 tomorrow night.

  40. If Julio makes a single start from here on out, barring Tex on the DL, I will scream. (Not that it wasn’t irritating already).

  41. Teixiera replaces Salty
    Mahay replaces Ascanio (who I like)
    Pena has to replace Thorman or Woodward, hopefully Woodie is gone

    Someone on Mlb rumors just posted something from DOB from yesterday. Say that the Tex deal would get done and we would also be looking at getting a starter before tuesday and that rumor hasnt been leaked out yet. Any idea of who they might be looking at

  42. Sure I like Andrus’ potential, but teams who pin their hopes on A and AA ball players are called the Pirates and the Royals.

  43. Mraver,

    Good grief…worse for 2008 and beyond?

    Anyway I’m just glad the Braves finally have a player who actually college besides Willie Harris and Tim Hudson. I was very impressed with the Arizona strategy of drafting players out of college.

  44. Obviously they were caused by the wind at Myrtle Beach, Ethan.

    Another couple of reasons why it will probably be Thorman and not Franco is that a)Franco is useful for pinch hitting whereas Thorman could not be less useful for that; and b)we didn’t sign Franco all that long ago. We had to know that we were gonna be in the Tex sweepstakes when we signed him, so why would we sign him if we were just gonna DFA him a week and a half later? Plus, I have this sneaking suspicion Bobby would never let JS DFA Franco unless Franco agreed to be a coach with the team and agreed that he was done or something.

  45. Did Andrus have a pretty bad year last year as well? Or have I been misinformed? I understand he is only 18 as well.

  46. “There’s a possibility that the player to be named will be 22-year-old left-handed pitcher Matt Harrison, who was scheduled to have his left shoulder examined by Braves doctors in Atlanta on Monday. Harrison experienced this soreness during a six-inning start for Double-A Mississippi on Tuesday.”

    This according to the updated article on the official site.

  47. I want to win the wild card. Our record at home is not so good.

    When Harrison is dominating in 2015 some of you will be sorry and some of you will be dead and all that your children will have to remember you is your 2007 World Championship plaque, tee shirts, and hats. Of course the Braves may also win it all in 2015.

  48. Like it. Like it very much. Besides Jermaine Dye and Jason Schmidt name a Brave’s prospect we traded for veteran help that became a star? Using the word star very loosley. Texeira is NOT a superstar to whoever said that but his presence in the lineup makes us way better and the fact that we got an effective reliever out of the deal makes this a great deal. Mahay isn’t Mike Gonazales but he has been effective in a tougher league in a hitters ballpark so theoretically should thrive in the NL and Turner Field.
    Salty – we are basically leveraging a great season in Myrtle Beach, a couple of good weeks in Pearl and a hot start in Atlanta for a bonified switch hitting, good fielding first baseman and a lefty reliver.
    Andrus – Scouts love the atleticism. But they loved Andres Thomas’ athleticism too.
    Harrison – This is the one I hate to lose but tnstaapp.
    Throw in – if its a pitcher see above.

    Salty just might become the next Marc Texiera but since we have the now Marc Texiera we are looking good. I have to hand it to John Schuerholz. He sees the current state of baseball as clearly as anyone. Its too expensive these days to prevent runs by trading for pitching. All you get these days is a journyman having an outlier year, a washed up veteran or a kid with potential that can’t help you win now. Schuerholz also realizes that win now is very important. Our best players are still Smoltz and Chipper and they are getting up there. Win now. Great deal for the Braves.

  49. I don’t think you can win the Wild Card.. you can earn it.. It’s like saying “I won 2nd place”

  50. Re: pitching prospects, it doesnt matter to me whether a prospect contributes to the Braves or if they are traded. Horacio Ramirez got us Soriano; Dan Meyer got us Hudson, so I do not think that the minor league system has done a poor job providing the big league team with pitching. It only seems bad in comparison to the dominant, once-in-a-lifetime rotations of the 1990s.

  51. I like that Smitty…lol

    Yea Dan,

    I always felt Pena was shafted anyway. He will be a solid back-up. Maybe McCann can start hitting now that Salty is DEFINITELY out of the picture.

  52. Tony-

    I’m confused; what’s wrong with being concerned about next year’s team as well as this years?

  53. You guys are by far the most conservative and pragmatic sports fans I’ve ever seen. Fans are supposed to be concocting silly trades that have no prayer of happening but if they did would obviously put their team over the top. And you’re worried about what happens three years from now? Jesus, guys. Lighten up.

    Three years from now we’ll put together the team for three years from now. But I cannot remember a single trade involving prospects that JS has made that turned out to completely blown up in our face, and more often then not, the prospects turn out to not be worth a shit. And yet you seem to have absolutely no faith in him whatsoever.

  54. When Ned Yost is managing the Braves in 2009, none of this will matter anyway. Play to win, now.

    Expect Omar M to make a splash. Cant wait to read the NY post headlines tomorrow. Here we come baby…..

  55. Mraver,

    If we were not in contention…then I could see some of your points. However, we are in contention…we can worry about next year in the offseason. Let’s focus on this year.

    If we could have gotten Dye back in LF, that would have been awesome…but I’m satisfied.

  56. I think we have to trust JS.

    Salty – Was blocked by McCann at C, and basically we get an all star to replace him at first base where he wasnt natural. So thats an even wash, unless you planned on having salty as the First Basemen of the next decade.

    Andrus – We dont know what this guy is or what he isnt, but right now he is blocked by Renteria, Escobar, Lillibridge, so we can take that.

    Harrison and Felix, this hurts, but you figured they were going, i think for the amount tey got we should have gotten Wilson instead of Mahay.

    But we dont know what there arms will do either, the last cuople prospects that have come up havent been that great, te most solid one is chucky james, and he is here for a while. I do think that Davies will get straightend out, he has a live arm, and has good stuff, if he can be consistant he would be ok. Remember Jason Schmidt was like that too we got rid of him and he was a star, I think Davies is ok, Reyes will be ok too, and the money we save when Smoltzie retires helps us get a new front end guy.

    The thing that worries me is, we dont have much left now to make another trade, and we desperatley need another starter, as I dotn trust Buddy Carlye in the playoffs.

    Let us not forget, barring a severe hemoroid or something, that Hampton will be back next year ,adn you will have Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton James Carlye and a decent pen, if you keep mahay, with gonzo coming back after the injury, soriano, and moylan, and a killer lineup, as you trade AJs contract to fill some holes elsewhere, it could be good!

  57. Amen Nick. Too much stuff happens in 3 years. I agree with the comments above that teams like the Pirates and Royals are always hoping it comes together within 3 years and never seem to get there. I haven’t been this excited at the trade deadline in a few years. I hope there is another deal in the works.

  58. I am honestly disturbed by the folks being so negative about this deal.

    When did we become the organization afraid to trade prospects for a 27 yr. old supertar in his prime, a switch hiter, and instantly one of our 3 best players (along w/ Chipper and Renty).

    This trade does give me the same butterflies-in-the-stomach that the Hudson deal gave me. It creates excitement, a buzz, about the Braves and this is what being a Braves fan to me is all about.

    At least some people who aren’t as excited about the deal, like Stu, have said they want to see how it’s gonna play out now that we have Tex. But the few of you who are just so negative, I don’t understand it. The Pirates are constantly rebuilding and their fans just staged a walk out.

    Our General manager, John Schuerholz, just got us the best available player at the trading deadline. And you’re COMPLAINING? I am dumbfounded.

    This is awesome. I want to drive home right now from work, put my Braves hat on, and do the tomahawk the rest of the day I am so stoked. To me, this is a GREAT DAY TO BE A BRAVES FAN.

    And yeah, somehow I think we’ll be OK in 2009. I trust JS.

    Also, please will some of you go back and look at past threads to see what was said about Marte, Capellan, Betemit, et all?

    The Braves got the hands down best player in the deal and we are back on the map as a franchise.

    How this isn’t a positive for people who are BRAVES FANS is dumfounding.

    (standing up at desk and clapping and applauding JS for this). Thank you, JS!

  59. “Let us not forget, barring a severe hemoroid or something, that Hampton will be back next year”

    I would bet dollars to dimes that a similar comment was made about that last year. I hope you are right, but am not banking on it by any means.

  60. I’ve been standing up in my office and clapping too. My people officially think I’m nuts, and that’s OK!

  61. Land,

    I sincerely hope so too–plus, with Hampton’s deal ending next year and the possibility Andruw maybe gone, there’s an excellent chance we keep Tex.

    Plus, word has gotten around that Liberty is increasing payroll. That’s unconfirmed but I have heard it talked about. I assumed (along with everyone) they wouldn’t and this may not be the case.

  62. I really think some people have taken the whole build-from-within, $80 million payroll philosophy a little bit too much to heart. We have new ownership and we aren’t necessarily that team anymore. Once again, there is nothing that says we won’t be able to resign Teixeira and everybody assuming that is assuming the payroll will stay the same, which several things have said it won’t. If it was, we wouldn’t have been able to make this deal in the first place. So unless you all are relatives and friends of Terry “Free Agency is So Inefficient” McGuirk, quit being so freaking grouchy over the deal that may put us over the top.

  63. I heard the increase is in the neighborhood of 10-20 Million for next year. (I believe I read that on DOB’s blog).

  64. IT’S ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA TO TRADE GUYS THAT YOU’VE NEVER HEARD OF FOR SOMEONE THAT YOU HAVE! EVEN IF THE ONLY REASON YOU’RE TRADING FOR THAT GUY IS BECUASE YOUR TEAM’S MANAGER IS TOO STUPID TO PLAY THE GOOD PLAYERS HE’S ALREADY GOT!! GO BRAVES

  65. Right on, guys. This is a slam-dunk trade for the Braves, and as much as I don’t want to look back in horror at this one, I hope Salty and the other guys have successful careers, even if they are not Braves.

    JS is not done. There should be some starting pitching still on the way, too…

  66. Reply to #53 and #61, who said: Name me a stud pitcher we have developed in the last 5 years.

    Chuck James, people! He’s cheap as dirt, he had a great rookie year last year and is pitching great this year, and has been legitimately out of mind the last month.

    Or look at it this way. Alex R. – who’s our resident Eeyore whenever Bobby screws up with the bullpen – is optimistic about this team! Think about it!

  67. While I can understand some apprehension over the future, I think any self-respecting Braves fan should be elated with their team RIGHT NOW. It’s not like we’ll stop drafting players or stop developing players. In fact, who is to say what prospects come our way in the offseason or next year?

    Fact is, our offense looks to be solid for the rest of the year barring a complete collapse of everyone at the same time and I remain hopeful that JS is not done. I don’t know that he’ll be able to get someone as good as Vazquez, but a starter still seems in the cards for us.

    For one day, at least…let us be positive Braves Journal. :)

  68. Bottom line, there was a glaring hole at first base. Thats FIXED! Doesnt matter what it takes to get it, you had to do it. Now if Bobby is smart he is our fourth hitter, taking pressure off of andruw, which is huge. Plus we get a left hander who is good in the pen.

    Next year we have a full year of him, which is huge, then the following year you lose hamptons salary demand.

    Future is looking up, not down. We can keep Tex around, build for the future at the same time. We have alot of good young players on our team already. Frenchy, McCann, James, Escobar, ect, we will be ok, jsut gotta keep plugging along.

    We needed an impact, you dont know how this effects their psyche too, they might go out nad b elike they got us a huge bat lets go win this thing, the mets are scared too, caues now our first basemen is no longer an easy out, who knows if JS is done trading yet too. Could be a busy deadline

  69. Thank you AAR, Timo, Nick, Ron, Coz, JD Maker, MAC, Mr. Swings, ububba, Oceanside, Tony, njbravesfan and everyone else joining me on the happy & excited train. We just aquired a 27 year old stud for unknowns. Be happy. It’s OK. Do a little dance. make a little love. Get down tonight.

    And AAR, after some of the posts I have seen the last few weeks, there are definitely a couple of folks more negative than me ;-) But seriously, it’s hard to stop being happy & stop smiling after a day like today. JS has given me another day to be happy as a Braves fan.

  70. It has to, i mean, he has been feeling the heat pressing to hit home runs, now he isnt our first option which is chipper, he isnt our second option which is tex, plus renteria and frenchy have been playing better, he is another peice to the puzzle, and maybe he doesnt press.

    People are right, you never know how these prospects are gonna pan out, Thank god we traded Andy Marte who was the next coming, and Capellan, allbeit for the whale kolb, and the list goes on and on and on, but the end result is JS knows what he is doing, fixes our most glaring hole on offense, and in the bullpen by getting us a lefty reliever, tihs is a great trade, had tro do it

  71. I also think JS is looking for a starter, but I wonder what he can give up that will get us a very good one. At this point I don’t think he’ll trade Escobar. If I were a betting man, I would bet that Renteria will be dangled in the offseason (although I’m not real excited about that possbilitity). Davies and Thorman doesn’t seem like a very good package. Maybe Anthony Reyes in STL could be had for a reasonable price, but is it worth it?

  72. All I can say as I’m excited for tomorrow. I was a big Salts fan, but I’m liking the upside of having Tex for at least 1.5 years. The kid swings a big stick and plays solid D.

  73. i hope we sell out Turner tomorrow night, and go nuts when teixera comes up. Let’s show management/ownership that there is a return for investment. If they see bad crowds, they are going to think twice about investing any more in payroll.

  74. JoshQ, I’m on the Anthony Reyes bandwagon. I’d prefer Javy Vazquez, but I’d rather Atlanta take a chance on Reyes than deal for Morris, Contreras, Silva or some other mediocre financial albatross…

  75. Finally some news that gets us away from the Michael Vick debate.

    Atlanta needed a shower after all the negative garbage surrounding it over the last two/three weeks.

  76. so did we or did we not give up Harrison? The link to the braves site said it was Salty, Adrus, Feliz, and a player to be named later. This might be a good sign

  77. I’m honestly looking at this as Tex being Andruw’s replacement next year, offensively. (And Willie Harris defensively.)

    What makes this especially awesome is that we get both of them the rest of this year. From now until the end of the year we have the best team we’ve had for years (and probably will have for years). I like Smoltz-Hudson-James-Carlyle. I like a bullpen featuring Soriano and Wickman. I like a lineup that suddenly looks like something out of the top of the AL East. This is a really good team now.

  78. Again, I’m definitely excited to add Teix to this lineup. And again, I just think it was at too steep a price, at least if we’re unable to keep Teix past 2008.

    Nick,

    Suggesting that people pick different teams to follow if they don’t like this particular decision is so lame. The only opinion Braves fans have to share is that we want the team to win.

    Everyone,

    With all that said, I’m done complaining. AAR, JoeyT and Alex have convinced me that it’s okay to let my excitement for this acquisition trump my concerns about the future.

    I will say that comparing the McGriff deal—even as of the date it was made—to this one, in terms of the value of what we gave up, shows a clear lack of ability to differentiate among prospects.

  79. We still have Reyes, Josh, although trading a starting pitcher for a starting pitcher is kind of pointless and since the pitcher we’d be getting back would almost certainly be better than Reyes, we’d have to throw someone else in, too. It’ll be intersting to see what’s done in this regard, though. All of the prominent mid-rotation pitchers that have been publicized as available are waaaaay overpriced, but if he’s dealing with people who are under the radar, as has been indicated, it’s quite possible we could get one for a good price.

    I’m sure we could include Thorman or Davies (maybe not both) in some sort of deal. They’re not completely hopeless and there’s some talent there to be harnessed in both cases. I could see someone taking a chance on one of them.

  80. Joey T,

    The braves won’t go into next year with Harris as starting CF. Look for Cameron or another second tier player.

  81. Josh, it’s an interesting thought. Reyes definitely still has a high upside, even though it’s looking like he may need a change of scenery. I think he just picked the wrong year to be a rookie: St. Louis’ rotation had SO many holes this year, he just didn’t really have any room for growing pains. And he was unlucky. His ERA was bad, but he got a lot of strikeouts. If St. Louis has soured on him, he could make another team look very smart.

  82. As it stands now, I say that we’re average or well above average at all positions and rotation slots, and assuming Soriano and Wickman and Mahay maintain, an above average bullpen as well. I like our chances like woah.

  83. JoeyT – I’ve been understanding all along (and this was probably my own concotion), that Tex was being brought in to bridge the offense after Andruw’s departure at the end of this year. Perhaps to Tex, or perhaps to someone else in 2009.

    But you are all kidding yourself if you think that JS or his successor is going to drain this franchise because we don’t have a few minor league prospects and Salty. We are good to go for a while now. Talk about a shot in the arm.

  84. How highly regarded was Nieves back then? Pretty damn highly I thought. And remember, Salty wasn’t exactly the best prospect in baseball coming into this year, or last. He was around 30-50 on most lists I saw. Clearly, he’s one of the better catchers and had an off-2006, but still. (And I know it’s been beaten to death but Marte was a lot “better” too)

  85. Yeah, I know. I was saying we still have Jo-Jo to include in any potential deal. I understood who you were talking about.

  86. Put me in the excited crowd. It sux that we had to give so much, but every so often you just have to say “WTF”, and go for it all. Salty, Andrus, et. al may end up world beaters, but as they say: Flags Fly Forever.

    Kudos to JS for getting the best player available.

  87. Thanks Tennessee & Josh for the kind words–right back at you, fellow Braves fans.

    Yes, it’s good to see the happy folks are strongly outnumbering the naysayers.

    Tennessee…I meant to thank you earlier for pointing out that Tex’s wife is named Georgia. C’mon, people, now THAT’S a sign.

  88. Do you bat Texy at #5 to give Andruw some protection?

    Do you put Texy at #4 with Bobby rotating Andruw and Mac at the #5 spot depending on where we faced Lefy or righty?

  89. hey if we got this deal w/out giving up Harrison it makes this a whole lot better doesnt it? Two lower level arms with Andrus and Salty. Until this is completed we dont know who the other person is, could it be that Hanson kid? Here’s another report saying that its Feliz and a pitcher to be named later. I wonder if they are making up the Harrison shoulder thing just to keep him?

    http://www.star-telegram.com/284/story/185662.html

  90. I’m reasonably happy about the deal. If we sign Teixeria long-term, I’ll think it was a pretty even exchange.

    Glad we didn’t give up Matt Harrison as well…

  91. It’s days like today that we need BravesJournal stats and your most comparable poster. Count me in the optimistic group for this trade. JS knows what he is doing. Hopefully we can resign Teixeira.

  92. All from baseballamerica.com… just for information sake.

    Salty = #36 in 2007
    Salty = #18 in 2006
    Nieves = #39 in 1993 (last year with Braves)

    Marte = #9 in 2005
    Marte = #11 in 2004
    Marte = #40 in 2003

    Just for some comparison….
    McCann = #44 in 2005
    Teixeira = #1 in 2003!

    And the Braves had FOUR years in the 90’s with the #1 prospect in baseball. Scary.

  93. The DRays may be flipping Dan Wheeler to get a prospect. He’d be a great pickup if JS can find a match there…

  94. KJ
    Renteria
    Chipper
    Teix
    McCann
    Smurph
    Andruw
    Diaz

    That’s prolly what I’d do, and there’s a 0% chance of it happening.

  95. I am super positive.

    I didn’t think Salty would pan out to be as great as everyone thought he would be. You know, “the next Johnny Bench”

  96. Midseason Salty was around a top ten prospect. Currently, even before the trade, I think the best pitching prospects in the system are Hanson, Harrison, and Rohrbough. Someone posted a list of top ten and I agree with the names except I would exchange Steve Evarts for Jeff Locke.

  97. Rosenthal just posted this:

    The Braves could be on the verge of not only acquiring the best hitter on the trade market, but one of the best relievers as well.

    In addition to reaching a preliminary agreement for Rangers first baseman Mark Teixeira, the Braves are close to a deal for Royals closer Octavio Dotel, according to major-league sources.
    The Braves, Indians and Dodgers are the three finalists for Dotel, sources say. Royals general manager Dayton Moore, previously an executive with Atlanta, is intimately acquainted with the Braves’ farm system.

    The addition of Dotel would give the Braves a trio of formidable right-handers in the late innings — Dotel, Rafael Soriano and Bob Wickman.

    The Red Sox, Yankees, Tigers and Mariners also have shown interest in Dotel.

  98. google news’ top headline for “mlb trade”:

    “MLB trade gives Mets’ foe another bat”

    lolz

  99. Wow..Dotel would be fantastic, but I’m leery of making a deal with Moore. He may be savvier than anyone else in the Braves organization since he knows the farm system so well…

  100. As much as I think JS has done for the club I think this trade was a mistake.If Bobby stuck in salty 20-30 games ago at first,avg for first basemen would be around 270 with 10 hr.Anyone notice tex is having an off year,granpa sosa and young arre putting up better numbers than tex. Run saltys numbers up to 80 games let him hit in some key situations drive in some runs.Numbers wouldnt be that much different than tex this year. Why not have a cheap stud catcher playing first in the case mcCann gets hurt

  101. McCann is the next Johnny Bench.

    I am very excited about watching the Atlanta Braves over the rest of the season. Tex should make this a more exciting team to watch.

    However, Stu is right to say the price is too steep. You do have to recognize the value of prospects. A part of the reason the Nationals are so bad is that they have for years depleted their minors for quick fixes.

    Trading of prospects is necessary, but you have to know which ones to let go and which to keep. I sure hope JS knows something we do not as regards the players he just shipped to the Rangers.

  102. But knowing that Moore knows the farm system, would he likely be willing to take a bigger chance and see the potential upside of Davies or Thor? And they don’t cost a lot either. Interesting.

  103. @67: Hudson didn’t go to college, he went to Auburn.

    @Stu: I’d settle for Andruw being dropped to 5th. As much as those first three get on base, a marginally competent power hitter winds up with ridiculous numbers from the cleanup spot. I think Teix is that guy.

    @everyone else: I like the trade. JS has never made a “Francisco Liriano and Joe Nathan for A.J. Pierzynski” trade and I don’t think he’d start now. It sucks that Daniels was able to win the stare-down but in the long run, I doubt it’ll matter much.

  104. Let’s see:
    T…um, i before e, no that doesn’t look right…
    Oh, hell. Welcome to the ATL, Tex. wait ’til you see those people all choppin’ up in the stands!
    And haven’t AL players fallen in love with NL baseball when they get here?

  105. Moore may overvalue guys in the Braves’ system more than other GMs due to his familiarity. It could work both ways.

  106. Wheel and deal JS…we need to win this thing this year, at least while you are still on TBS.

  107. One of the possible names mlbtraderumors says that Thorman could go to KC in a Dotel trade. Uhhh, is that really a possibility or am I dreaming?

  108. alex R, i also stood in my office and clapped. although there’s nobody else in here… so i think i’ve still preserved my image of sanity

  109. I imagine Davies would go to KC in any package for Dotel. He’s a guy Moore drafted and was high on. I guess that could be said about a lot of players in the Braves’ minor league system though.

  110. Stu,

    You are being negative again (I so feel like our roles have reveresed…) but then again, the way Bobby manages a bullpen, I could see him using Dotel in a 9-1 game. In this case, you kind of have a right to be skeptical.

    Still, I would love to add Dotel, this team needs more arms, but yeah, I am very worried about Bobby over using him.

  111. Thor for Dotel? It could happen. Thor does have massive potential, as his track record indicates marked improvement after acclimation to each progressive level of baseball. He could be a useful 1B next year, and his power is something the Royals need. Thor is finished in Atlanta.

    It’s really not far-fetched that Moore/KC could use him, but I think the Braves would have to add a player or two with Thor to get it done.

  112. Thorman for Dotel makes sense for everybody, especially if they want Gordon playing 3B. Butler needs to DH, Gload can play the OF, and Gordon belongs at the other corner. Shealy’s been a bust. They need a 1B who’s not too expensive. Thorman for Dotel is about right.

  113. Honestly, I was being a bit sarcastic but it’s hard to not be excited about getting Texeira. I’d still rather have given Diaz a real shot at 1B but the chance for that has passed now. We’ve just got to hope now that Cox will realize when Harris is past his sell by date and that Diaz will start getting the lion’s share of the playing time out there. He certainly deserves it. I would have nutted up and demanded a trade by now.

  114. hey, how could we not do that trade? those two guys arent in bobbys plans.

    If the end of the Pen is, Dotel, Soriano Wickman, and throw in Yates and Moylan and Mahay, thats a solid pen, rebuilt, keep dotel around another year, and have the bridge be gonzo soriano dotel,

    i dont think JS is done, i think he is gonna pull out all of the stops, he wnats to win!

  115. Comment on Mlbtraderumors from a Mets fan…

    “Teixeira? Fine. But Teixeira and Dotel? I’m getting a little nervous…”

    What a fun day!!!

  116. Guys, Thorman didn’t work out well this year, but he is going to hit MLB pitching. Everyone said going into the season that he takes a half season to adjust to a new (higher) level, and then he catches on at that level, and hits. He had done that twice in the minors. He goes out and does what everyone kind of expected, and now everyone wants to dump on the poor guy. I am not saying do not make this trade, but I am saying that if he turns out to be a .280 20 HR guy, it would not surprise me. He is no Teixera, but he is no Rico Brogna, either.

  117. Stu, I missed you being positive while I was typing earlier – sorry :-)

    Yes, I would pee and do the chicken dance if JS gets Dotel for Thorman. That would be frakking awesome.

  118. And finally, the cherry on the sunday is if JS then deals Davies to Pittsburgh for Marte. Who could we add to the deal to also get Gorzelanny?

  119. Andy, Dotel is closing for the Royals. There just are not many opportunities to pitch in that role.

    He’s been mostly healthy aside from an oblique strain at the start of the year.

  120. I’m going to make a wild guess and say that the reason Dotel hasn’t been traded yet is that they were waiting to trade him for Thorman, who wasn’t expendable until the Braves acquired Tex.

    Thorman has a lot of upside an fills a hole on the Royals. They probably actively want him.

  121. I don’t disagree with you about Thorman’s potential, bfan, but I think he no longer has a spot on this team. Either Teix is here for a long time, or The Big Hawaiian is ready to step in after 2008.

  122. A new mnemonic for spelling “Teixeira” correctly:

    “To get this guy we sold the farm
    E I E I in Teixeira.”

  123. Why do we think there is a snowball’s chance we’d sign Teixeira? Boras will not let that happen. I can only assume the Braves saw some flaws in Salty the past month that made the want to sell high. His july numbers indicate that might be the case.

    .228/.274/.263 along with a Francournakova like 23/6 (K/BB ratio) the past two months.

  124. KD – But Dotel only pitched 25 total innings the previous two years. I’m guessing he’s healty now?

  125. Smitty…that was pretty low.

    I also think Thorman will hit major league pitching. Speaking of Braves 1st baseman, did anyone see Mike Hessman last night playing for the Tigers. Apparently he had like 27 hr in AAA.

  126. Dotel has a 5.5 MM player option for next year.

    Fun fact of the day:
    His contract commands a $1MM payout for a WS MVP.

  127. Stu…I totally agree with that. But I also don’t think Thor was ever going to develop into what we might have hoped.

    I was skeptical when he replaced LaRoche but we got Gonzo so I was happy (at the time, not knowing Gonzo would blow out his elbow).

    But wow, if we net Dotel and all it takes is freaking Thorman, I seriously might faint from happiness.

    It would be like that Steve Carrell moment at the end of “The 40 Year Old Virgin” when he’s finally had sex and he starts having the dream of ‘age of aquarius’.

  128. Doubledawg,

    As others have mentioned, we have an awful lot of current payroll off the books by then, and it’s possible they’ll try to keep Teix to continue building the offense around.

  129. BTW, in case anyone cares, I would be fully against giving up Davies for Dotel. Can’t wait for the responses to that one.

  130. I agree, Stu. Giving up a SP who needs to build his confidence for ANOTHER closer is sort of absurd.

  131. Dotel for Thorman? Are you kidding me? If we do that, can we offically call this the greatest trade deadline ever? Wow. I’m actually kind of speechless right now.

  132. Are you just trying to pick a fight, Stu?

    I don’t think Davies is going anywhere. From all accounts, the Royals have been asking or position players for Dotel.

  133. Dotel had TJ surgery in 2005 and spent 2006 recovering with NYY, who strangely paid him to rehab with no 2nd year on the deal to actually pitch for them.

    The Royals gambled he’d be healthy and his arm has looked very good. His K rate is strong and he seems to be totally healthy now.

    I know him well because he’s been on my fantasy team all year….

  134. Nick, I know, me too. It’s really hard to focus on work–and that’s just thinking about the highway robbery of Thorman for Dotel.

  135. AND if we trade Thorman, there’s more of a chance we’ll send Woodward down to make room for Brayan Pena. This is getting better and better.

  136. I saw a rumor that it might be Brandon Jones.

    I hope it’s Thorman. For our sake and for Thorman’s.

  137. You don’t trade Davies…he’s too young. And he has proven he can get major leaguers out. Just not consistently. I think he’s too young to give up on completely.

  138. JoshQ,

    Huh? I can’t give an honest opinion? I think we’d be selling WAY low on Kyle—i still have hopes that he’ll be in the middle of our rotation in the relatively near future.

  139. I’m with you on that, Stu. I don’t think Davies for Dotel would be a good move.

    Magic 8-ball, what do you have to say?

    “OUTLOOK NOT SO GOOD”

    How about Thorman?

    “ALL SIGNS POINT TO YES”

  140. For what its worth, guy i know said he thinks its thorman, or jones, no davies but he thinks its def thor

  141. So you guys who for some reason wouldn’t want to trade Davies for Dotel haven’t once complained about the bullpen in the last two weeks, right?

    I think Thorman is more likely, especially since we’ll have to get rid of him anyway with Tex coming in, but why would we not want to trade Davies for him?

  142. Stu, I agree.

    I think Kyle Davies has the “stuff” to get major league hitters out, just not a good head on his shoulders. Maybe a sports psychiatrist could help him out like what happened with Smoltz.

  143. I think I heard a rumor that the Braves just resigned Craig Wilson to send him to Pittsburgh for Marte & Snell.

    Obviously not, but that’s how this day is feeling.

  144. Alright, sorry. You gave a reason while I was typing that up.

    I will say that I once thought that about Davies, but I’m afraid I’ve officially given up on him. I actually spent money to attend that game where he didn’t get a single out. Still sore about that one. Although it was offset nicely by the fact that later that week I also was at the Harris six-hit game.

  145. Alex,
    the only rumor better than that one would be that the Mets are close to a deal for Redman and Dan Kolb.

  146. Nick,

    Our problem now and next year is starting pitching. Why trade a promising starter for another closer?

  147. Dotel would make me a tad giddy, but I agree that I’d like to see a professional major-league starter, too.

    OK, not giddy, but greedy.

    Trust JS, trust JS, ohmmmmmm…..

  148. Keith,

    Nothing would please me more than seeing Kolbb in a Mets uniform. Even Winston the watercooler would be doing a little jig.

  149. Well, shucks, Nick, you’re right. Let’s trade McCann and James for Dotel. Because if there’s a problem, you fix it, no matter the cost.

  150. Because our bullpen needs help and I’m not exactly sure how promising Davies is anymore.

    All things being equal, I would rather trade Thorman, though, and I don’t think the deal is for Davies anyway.

  151. I’m gonna pretend you didn’t actually just say that, Stu, and we’re gonna move along now.

  152. I don’t think anyone is talking about dealing James & McCann. Let’s all be happy about Teixeira and likely Thorman for Dotel. This is fucking Disneyland for us Braves fans right now!

  153. Funny that the big news for the Mets is Luis Castillo. Gasp!!!
    It also seems like the Tex deal was just a domino that needed to fall in order to spur more movement. JS’s plan A.1 was for Tex and now A.2 is for Dotel. Maybe I’m greedy, but I’d love to see if there is an A.3.

  154. I just text messaged my three mets friends and they all replied within less than a minute. They are scuuurrred! Though one did have a quality response, “Without salty your lineup is as bland as schuerholz’s autobiography”

  155. Hate King,

    Yeah, Salty has been great in our lineup lately. Looking sad and clutching a bat.

  156. while JS is at it, lets go get a 3rd or 4th starter. on, nj.com/forums/mets, they are all saying we made a bad trade for tex cause we gave up too much and dotel isnt good and blah blah blah, well, they must be scared, because if we get dotel, and we are able to get another starter, our lineup is sick, our pen is alot better because of Mahay the lefty and dotel the righty, and if we get a starter, anyone, or if reyes can settle down, we are in great shape for this year and next year with teh addition of hampton, the loss of andruw gives us money to get an equal cf and fill a whole elsewhere be it the rotation the pen or the bench?

  157. Clearly with Castillo the Mets plan on annoying us to death. I will give them that the top of their lineup will be the most infuriating in baseball with he and Reyes. It will rival that year the Marlins had Pierre and Castillo for the amount of cheap-ass hits.

  158. Did I not read once that other GMs were starting to get uneasy when dealing with JS and he wanted to give up a picher. The tone was if the Braves want to move a pitcher the up side is limited. Other than Wainwright that is true.

    By the way I think Chuckie is good but not a stud just yet.

  159. I’m not sure about Dotel. He’s striking out batters but also allowing a lot of baserunners. Plus coming off TJ surgery . . .. I d’give Thorman for him, but not much else.

    Castillo is a good pickup for the Mets. He fills a hole for them. I don’t think he makes them better so much as he keeps them from being worse after Valentin was hurt.

  160. Sorry, Nick, it was late. Supposed to be in response to your “you can’t be against this if you’ve complained about the bullpen before” line.

  161. Thorman for Dotel would make my day. I noticed last year that Thor had shown the capacity for improvement once he acclamates to a new level. Then I saw him swing. That’s a swing with a ceiling, folks, and it’s not a high one, either.

  162. I’m extremely high now on our chances at the postseason. In my opinion, the ability to have Dotel, Soriano, and Wickman in any postseason series is more important than a 3rd starter. I think James is solid enough to get the job done. If a team can shorten the game to six innings, then you have to like their chances.

  163. What kind of starting pitching should we be after and what will we have to give up to get it?

  164. If a team can shorten the game to six innings, then you have to like their chances.

    Of course, that’s what we were all saying at the beginning of the year with Gonzo and Soriano. ;)

  165. Josh,

    The way Wickman and Soriano have been pitching lately, that’s a pretty extreme statement.

  166. Personally, I’m done with Davies—I’ve seen enough. I will never pine for him if and when he leaves.

    But if we were to trade him, I also would prefer to land a starter.

  167. ok you guys might shoot me, but with chipper tex frenchy mccan, is renteria expendeble IF we can get a top of the line starter? Like if the Sox said here is Garland for Renteria, would you rather have a staff with Smoltz Huddy Garland and the infield with tex chipper kelly and escobar, or would you take your chances with Chucky as #3 and edgar in the lineup?

  168. Given that we’re going after more relief, I’m starting to think that maybe we’ve decided the other GMs are asking for way too much on starting pitching. I wouldn’t be surprised if we try to sign one off of waivers or something. It’s kind of weird how the perceived “thing that everyone needs” has shifted. Over the last several years, it’s been bullpen help and this year, it’s starting pitching, for some reason.

  169. Nick,

    Completely agree. JS has to get creative with ways to help the team since the market for SP is so unimpressive.

  170. Yeah, I guess he’s slightly more expendable now than he was yesterday, theoretically, but I still just wouldn’t want to trade the guy who’s been the MVP of my teams thus far. Even forgetting all the numbers we’d be losing, messing with team chemsitry like that is just never a good thing.

  171. Yeah, just a thought to throw out there. I think the infield is now mashers, and if we continue to get AJ to get better, frenchy is ok, and anything out of left field would be nice, we have a great lineup. BUT i am scared with the back 60% of our rotation, although i dont know if anyone has a better 1-2 punch than smoltz and huddy when they are on. I wonder if we could have gotten kyle lohse if he would have helped us?

    Dan made a good point in 255, JS has the league panicked, lets see Omar make a dumb move or better yet, the phillies are destined to do sometihng dumb

  172. You mean like trade for Lohse?

    Kyle Lohse, by the way, is the epitome of the current available starting pitching market. All the ones available are pretty much like that. So IMO it would be more better just to find one off waivers and give him a flier or something.

  173. I was just confused because ESPN hadn’t stolen the Lohse story yet and presented it as their own.

    Thanks, Smitty.

  174. njbravesfan
    I dont think we can get a top of the line starter. If garland were obtainable for edgar I’d let him go. Braves have talent in the infield.3 top pitchers in a 5 game series looks awfully good around playoff time

  175. Seriously, I bet Stu-YAH Scott starts a separate tournament with say Erin Andrews, Kevin James and Mike Greenberg to figure out who’s more NOW among the people traded.

    It would be SO ESPN.

  176. DOB says he thinks this Tex trade makes the Braves a playoff team.

    He says JS isn’t finished dealing and that JS & Bobby are playing for this year & next.

    And he believes the Braves will overtake the Mets and win the division.

  177. Lohse deal proves why were are going after Dotel instead of a starter. I really believe that what we have now is as good as it’s gonna be. There are no game changing pitchers on the market and even if there were that team would want our farm system.

  178. Acquiring a big name player like Tex will definetly have an impact on the Mets and Phils clubhouses, especially before some big series’ coming up. For me, the trade works. Salty was too good not to play, so why not maximize the value?

  179. AlexR, now am I gonna have to scold you for bringing up Who’s NOW? Remember I got in trouble around here last week for my reference to it. :)

  180. So if Harrison is hurt, would we throw in another player or would we do the whole cash thing that normally happens to us in these PTBNL deals?

  181. I guess, if you dont go out and get a starter, then we will adress another area, like perhaps another bullpen arm, or something that might shock us like a bench player or a left fielder?

    Although i find it hard to believe he wont add another arm for the rotation or at least try.

    If the White Sox want to sell, they will lower it all tommorow.

    Mike and the Mad Dog doesnt think Dotel is a difference maker but Tex could be, but isnt a solid difference maker, NY is scared!

  182. Teixeira’s OBP is over .400. Put him in the fourth hole, and you have two consective batters who get on base 40% of the time.

  183. Both of our LF are hitting over .315 and the defense is above adequate. Why is it a problem?

  184. since the dominoes are falling today and there is a run on trades, because people cant wait. Tommorow at 4 might be extremeley boring or else, maybe the mets say hey we need help now and make a blockbuster

  185. 285 Robbroad4th, Im just scared in the clutch Willie will falter or Diaz will, I hope Im wrong, as I love Diaz bat and Willie is quick and all, but im just saying thats an area we could upgrade.

    hey I heard Dave Roberts is out there, jk

    Two weeks ago i read this article that said we were scouting Ryan Klesko, thank god we got Tex instead!

  186. Smoltzie will be happy! I am just watching a Show on Golfcannel UK featuring DeRosa, Mench, Laird and our man, Mark Teixeira. He knows how to play golf, that’s for sure. Is there anytjing he can’t do?? ;-)

  187. MLBTraderumors.com seems to think the Mets should go after the Sammy “the Cork King” Sosa.

  188. What do we have left to offer in trade to get a starting pitcher? I wouldn’t trade Renteria until the offseason.

  189. That would be so freaking hilarious. Perhaps our man Daniels could even get them to give something up for him in their panic. Oh man, would that be great. If I were the Rangers GM, I think I’d be willing to trade him for a spaghetti dinner.

  190. njb,
    Francesa is a Yanks fan & the Mad Dog is a Giants fan.

    Both kinda hate the Mets, so they lay it on thick & heavy whenever they can (although Francesa has lightened a little bit since Randolph took over the Mets).

    The Dog’s Yankee-baiting, however, is classic.

  191. Maybe as part of the deal for Tex, JS convinced Daniels to ship Sosa to the Mets for Milledge and Maine.

  192. O i know, i listen to them every day, im just saying, they hate the braves too. I dotn know,

    I hear that the Braves have looked at Damaso Marte, i wonder if they get dotel if that trade is dead?

    I still think there is gonna be a third trade too, i dotn think he is done with tex mahay and dotel

  193. Did you hear about Farnsworth’s most recent blow-up? He turned his back when Posada came to the mound after getting crossed up and Arod had to get in between them. He is such an idiot.

  194. I would really like to know if Stu would now think the deal is worth it if that was part of it.

  195. With Moises Alou just back off the DL, that’s as good as making a trade for the Mets, I would say. His presence makes their lineup pretty stout and would, I surmise, obviate the need for a Sosa trade. Of course, I hope the Mets DO go after Sosa, because man, does he ever suck…

  196. i could see if marte doesnt come in, and Farnsworth is valued at 0 JS pickinghim up for nothing and the yankees paying his salary which would be terrible for us!

  197. njb,
    Ever since the ’93 NL West race, Dog definitely has hated the Braves.

    Francesa seems to hate all things south of the Mason-Dixon Line, but he’s always been fair about discussing the Braves’ accomplishments. I’ve heard him bitch-slap many a Met fan about them.

  198. I listen to them every day on WFAN, but I despise them and dont know why i listen to them!!!!

    MAD DOG is ok, but he is like Francesas bitch, if he says something Dog jumps, and Francesa thinks he knows everything about everything and it aggravates me, and his whole existence is that he knows bill parcells who has never been on the show!

    I listen to them but they make me mad, they are mean to their callers and they are just clueless about alot especially mikes blind lust for the yankees and love of diet coke

  199. Despite possibly losing Feliz, we still have a younger and possibly better ace in the system.

    from Peanut on 07/03/07

    The Braves seemingly landed a potential future star on Tuesday, when they signed Julio Teheran to a free-agent contract. Teheran, a 16-year-old right-handed pitcher from Colombia, was recently ranked by Baseball America as the top pitcher in the international free-agent class.

    http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070703&content_id=2064864&vkey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

    Although he’s years away, Teheran must be included on any list of prospects. It’s conceivable that he could be up with the big club by 2011. He’d still be only 20 years old.

  200. thats all i need to know, funny thing is, i was excited to get him tat year, my friend coaches baseball at a high school down the road, and he played in college and stuff, guy knows his stuff, he said, farnsworth will kill you, and i was like no way and as he had 10 straight saves, i said see billy i told you, he goes, you will see, sure enough he was right, he still makes fun of me for that

  201. Dotel for Thorman, hah!

    I wouldn’t mind adding a bullpen arm, and losing Brandon Jones wouldn’t be too catastrophic, as I don’t think he can play CF. That said, our OF might be getting kinda thin until Cody Johnson and Schaefer show up.

    Hmm. OTOH, we can try platooning Thorman with Diaz in LF next year if we don’t move him.

  202. Rob, that and the fact that he has a Barry Bonds type demeanor are the only things important to remember about Farns

  203. 6-1 lead in the eighth inning in game four of the 2005 NLDS. Another bullpen meltdown after a outstanding outing from Tim Hudson.

    3YR/18M for Farnsworth. Nice one Cashman.

  204. Because we liked having Ryan Klesko in left field so much that we’d like to revisit it again?

  205. I do agree that Farnsworth doesn’t seem to be a very nice guy. I am kind of over thinking someone is no good because they have a bad play-off game; there wouldn’t be many Braves to like, left, if that was the standard.

  206. Gobble vs. Dotel

    Gobble is a lefty and arguably we still need another one in the pen. Apparently, the Braves have talked to the Royals about these players and Moore is interested in Davies as well as Thorman.

  207. njb,

    I love Mike & the Mad Dog.

    I don’t have to agree with them & could care less what they really think. I just find them very entertaining.

    Francesa is an arrogant know-it-all & Mad Dog plays the “everyman fan,” even though he’s a tennis-playing rich kid from Syosset, Long Island. But their show is just great radio.

    To me, there’s Mike & the Mad Dog and then every other sports-radio team is a distant second.

  208. As far as the PTBNL from Oakland, we haven’t gotten anybody or anything yet as far as I know. However, they do have 6 months to agree on what player to send. So at the latest we should know by… October?

  209. This trade is shambolic.

    I’m in favor of pulling a Pirates (walk-out) when Teixeira doesn’t re-sign.

    Seems like Mahay is somewhat like somebody acquiring “Death” Ray from us last year. Problem solved, if by “problem solved” you mean “problem solidified through season’s end”. Because no solution is a solution, though rarely ever the correct one.

  210. I agree I enjoy listening to the Mike and the Mad Dog Radio program but i dont know why! haha i get so mad at them.

    They are good radio. When i went to college i lived in DC and i worked in congress for 3 years before coming back to teach and coach football, DC sports radio was ATROCIOUS, they hated everyone, Jagr, Jordan, Spurrier, ect. they were terrible, at least mike and the mad dog are entertaining, and they do have great guests, your right

  211. I’ll postface that if we beat the Mets, it’s almost worth it. Nah, decently worth it. I’m just not expecting it. Sure hope we at least get the wildcard…

  212. @334

    That by far was the most negative post I have seen on this. Keep enjoying that position.

    Most of us are very happy Braves fans today.

  213. If we beat the mets then its all worth it, so they shut their mouths, with their huge payroll and disgusting fans and i hate the mets, i live in new jersey thats all i hear yankees and mets and i hate both of them

  214. We should have released Woodward earlier in hopes that the Mets would pick him up instead of Castillo. Go home, Woody!

  215. Yeah, Alex. That was so over the top that I was actually convinced until he followed up that he was joking. Yeesh! Some folks are just impossible to please.

  216. As for Oakland’s PTBNL, I hope it is our own Dan Meyer, who has had a nice revival in AAA this year.

  217. Sometimes you just gotta roll that dice & go for the gusto.

    I don’t lose any sleep over Macay McBride, Andy Marte, Adam Wainright or anyone we’ve traded. They’re like ex-girlfriends—once they’re gone, they’re gone.

    Next.

  218. Nice thought, bfan, but do you really think Oakland would give us a player with any type of potential whatsoever for a player that they then flipped again in two days? I’m guessing we get cash.

  219. Very simply, Woodward needs to be destroyed.

    Even if we don’t beat the Mets this year, gee, I am just appreciate we have a GM that will have the guts to go out & get a star player and give us that chance.

    As Jim Carrey once famously said in “Dumb and Dumber”, “so you’re SAYING there’s a chance!” That’s all I asked and we have that shot now.

    Not to mention the psych out we’ve given the Mets and Phillies players and fans by reminding them that we’re not going ANYWHERE and plan on sticking around to open a can of whoop ass on those bastards.

  220. fantasy question;

    would you start Blanton who pitches against Det and LAA this week, or would you start Dave Bush against NYM. All games are home games for the pitchers

  221. Good thing you latched onto the Braves and not the Expos as a kid, ububba.

    Alex,

    Come on, dude, it’s ok for people to have different opinions/reactions. No need to try to single anyone out. I’m sure it’s nothing personal.

  222. yeah, but Det has lost like 7 of their last 8 or something like that. Blanton has been solid at home and against LAA.

    Bush has been about avg over the last few weeks. I dont know

  223. Stu,

    I get singled out all the time but I can live with it :-)

    That aside, it was pretty freaking negative.

    All any of us are asking (and I used you as the example in a good way) is that even if you don’t love all the prospects we ghave yup, give the deal a chance and just be happy that our GM went out & got this team a superstar.

    That’s all.

  224. I don’t see Royals taking the King of Pop for Dotel. Besides the obvious–Thorman hits himself on the head more often than he hits the ball–didn’t they get a hot 1B prospect (Ryan Sheehy or something like that) from the Rockies last year?

  225. i’m elated over getting tex

    but dotel seems to be an injury waiting to happen. maybe he could make it the rest of the year and then get flipped. dunno. but even under normal usage i think dotel’s arm might fall off. IF he holds up the whole year, then it sounds good to me.

  226. Shealy did not work out.

    Thorman is a natural fit for their needs, and a young 1B with power and upside is good value for a 33 year old RP coming off arm surgery.

  227. But nobody HAS to be happy with it. And if they aren’t, it doesn’t affect whether we can be. We won’t know who’s “right” until the end of this season and years down the road, anyway.

  228. That sounds about right to me. Acosta looks good in Richmond but there are several relievers in our system that I like better than him so it doesn’t hurt us that much. I’d take Devine, Ascanio, Startup, and Stockman over him right now.

  229. Dan, What’s the consensus on the Royals blogs? Are they excited about the Power of Thor?

  230. Acosta fits the Royals profile. They’ve had great success this year teaching controlto pitchers who have previously had problems in that area. (Meche, De La Rosa). Acosta doesn’t give up HR and he strikes guys out. If they can fix him, too, he’d be a perfect fit.

  231. From Heyman. This, I don’t think I like as well:

    The Braves, fresh off their trade to land Mark Teixeira, are in serious talks to acquire Octavio Dotel from the Royals, SI.com has confirmed.

    Kansas City stands to receive shortstop Brent Lillibridge in return. The 22-year-old prospect is batting .283 with five home runs and 20 RBIs for Class AAA Richmond.

  232. Are there Royal fans and do they really have a blog? It is called Rebuilding:the 20 year project?

  233. No. In fact they’re saying stuff like:

    “Dayton Claus has become the Grinch” and “this is the best we can do?”.

  234. Brent Lillibridge for Dotel? Eh…don’t like that nearly so much…please let it be Thor…

  235. WTF Stu? You’re not allowed to make posts from the beach while the rest of us are stuck in offices without windows…. That makes me a saaaaaddddd panda.

  236. All things Royal. They talk about Tony Pena and think back about George Brett. This discuss all the ‘prosepcts” they want to hold on to forever.

  237. isnt Lillibridge suppose to be an over-hyped prospect who strikes out a ton? But, that is giving up our two best SS prospects. They must really be counting on Escobar and Johnson for the next few years.

  238. I’ll throw in some rationale.

    I could care less where a player is from, etc. Care nothing about the GT angle, and have at times considered having irrational favoritism for, say, Canadians just to counteract the over-the-top GA love. Problem is, all of the Canadians we have are/were hell-bent on destroying our team. I’ll figure something out.

    Teixeira has a lifetime .850ish OPS away from Ameriquest Ballpark at Arlington Dubya Field. Not a direct translation to overall stats for us, of course, but if he puts up an .850, I’ll be pissed.

    Not all activity is good activity, not all good moves are good moves at a later date, etc. I feel like this move is somewhat questionable to begin with because of all the trading chips we just blew/used. When it comes after the team has blown a few games and put itself against a wall (we need something like a projected 34-22 for the WC), you begin to wonder, too late? So I think the timing of the deal is certainly off, due of course to Texas, but at some point, you just have to walk away. I think that time was probably before we lost the series to SF, but I can certainly see how others would think differently. Several teams to pass now, though, but not as bad as last year.

    Seems like we probably had the price driven up on us, too. From here, it looks like our best player prospect (Salty), our highest ceiling player prospect (Elvis), our best pitching prospect (Harrison), and perhaps our maybe highest ceiling pitching prospect (Feliz). I think all are Top 150 guys or close. Of course, we haven’t really had a tolerable pitching prospect since Millwood, were wasting Salty, etc. but in principle, it seems steep. Especially if Teixeira hits closer to his road averages than the collective conscious’s ideal of his hitting ability, which seems to border on him consistently winning 1v9 games against the All-Star teams.

    Selling Mahay a little short, I guess. Still, do you see him being any more valuable/consistent than Paronto/Yates (maybe mix some of Yates’s outings up so you get a more consistent averageness)? I really don’t. And we likely gave up one of those 4 prospects just for him. What a special guy!

    I can see some nobility in going for it (though we still don’t have a 3rd starter, while we’re thinking playoffs). I can see why people are excited about getting Teixeira (even if he seems to be a tad overrated of late. No savior, the rest of the Braves team has to play like they belong in the playoffs too). I just think this trade seriously mortgages maybe 09-who knows?. Our FO hates FA’s (according to McGuirk), so it would seem we’re pretty much tied to (currently exorbitant) trades and prospects to improve our team (so mostly prospects). About half the prospects just left town. Either we back off that stance on FA’s (which aren’t getting any cheaper) or we’re looking a little thin with no serious replacements for Smoltz, Chipper, or Andruw in sight.

  239. Giving up Andrus and Lillibridge on the same day is not wise. That leaves just Escobar, and coming into the season Escobar was considered the most inferior of the “big three” Braves’ minor league shortstops.

  240. The knocks on Lillibridge are that he does strike out a lot and doesn’t hit for a lot of power. His game seems to resember David Eckstein with more speed.

  241. At the beginning of the season I would have said, “Wow we just got Gonzo and Dotel for Adam Freakin LaRoche.” Now I’m not so sure. This would be putting all your eggs in the Escobar basket and that kind of freaks me out.

  242. since it’s trade day…. how about some other news?

    looks like the deal to send garnett to boston has been done.

    i know that doesn’t concern us much, but big news nonetheless

  243. JS might be just clearing out some more room for JS Jr. Do you think our next GM cuts JS Jr on his 1st day?

  244. I’d say it would be an amazing deal if I could trade Orr for one of those $25 all you can eat seats at turner.

  245. Also, another deal has been finalized:

    David Stern has traded NBA Referees Tim Donaghy & Joey Crawford to the NFL & Roger Goodell for Michael Vick and Adam ‘Pacman’ Jones.

    Stern & Goodell agreed to trade eachother their problems and called it a “win-win” scenario.

    Selig was reportedly upset because neither of them agree to take Bonds Home Run chase or the clear.

  246. I like local players. Something about Francoeur, Davies, McCann, Boyer, James, Heyward, McBride (when he was here), Harris and whoever I’m forgetting all being from the state of Georgia just seems right.

    Teixeira is from Maryland however.

  247. Royals talking to Braves about trading Dotel for pitcher Kyle Davies
    By BOB DUTTON
    The Kansas City Star
    MINNEAPOLIS | The Royals appeared to ready to trade veteran closer Octavio Dotel to the Atlanta Braves on Monday afternoon for right-handed starter Kyle Davies.

    Neither club has yet offered official confirmation, although several sources indicated a deal was tentatively in place.

    “It’s inappropriate for me to comment on any deal that may or may not happen,” Royals general manager Dayton Moore said. “When and if there is a deal, we’ll make an announcement.”

    The holdup appears to be on the Braves’ end and concerns their ability to work out final details on a trade earlier in the day in which they acquired first baseman Mark Teixeira and reliever Ron Mahay from the Rangers for catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia, shortstop Elvis Andrus and two pitching prospects.

    The non-waiver trading deadline is 3 p.m. Tuesday. The Royals continue to discuss trade possibilities with other club in case talks break down with the Braves.

    The Dodgers, Indians and Mariners have strongly pursued Dotel, who entered Monday’s series opener against the Twins at 2-1 with a 3.91 ERA and 11 saves in 14 opportunities since returning May 22 from the disabled list.

    Davies, 23, has spent parts of the last three seasons in the Braves’ rotation but has yet to reach their projection of a front-line starter. He was demoted recently to Class AAA Richmond after going 4-8 with a 5.76 ERA in 17 starts.

    Davies was the Braves’ fourth-round pick in 2001 as a 17-year-old and reached the majors in 2005. He is a combined 14-21 with a 6.15 ERA in 52 games, including 45 starts, in parts of three seasons.

  248. I’m with Dan. I am from Savannah originally so it doesn’t bother me one bit to see home grown talent or players that grew up rooting for the Braves.

    Why do you think we were able to get McCann to sign a below market deal?

  249. I’m so curious about that Dotel trade, now.

    1) Is it for real? It sounds for real.

    2) Is it for Thorman/Acosta, Lillibridge, or some other package? Honetly, Thorman/Acosta makes the most sense.

  250. 390 — i read somehwere that he wanted to play for the O’s too. i can’t confirm that though. here’s to hoping he really likes playing for the braves and realizes that playing for the O’s would be a mistake as long as angelos owns the team. heh heh

  251. Personally, I say we flip Mahay with Prado and Davies to Pittsburgh for Marte and your choice of Snell or Gorz.

  252. Both like hockey too much.

    And Lillibridge is Eckstein + power + speed + defense. Please don’t trade him on the same day Andrus goes—my heart may actually break.

    I thought Tony’s Yunel-love was extreme, but it looks as though JS may share it.

  253. Joey, if a first baseman who wants to be Dave Kingman is their idea of a natural fit, they’re welcome to him.

  254. From the Kansas City Star: [http://www.kansascity.com/385/story/211348.html}

    Royals talking to Braves about trading Dotel for pitcher Kyle Davies By BOB DUTTON The Kansas City Star MINNEAPOLIS | The Royals appeared to ready to trade veteran closer Octavio Dotel to the Atlanta Braves on Monday afternoon for right-handed starter Kyle Davies.

    Neither club has yet offered official confirmation, although several sources indicated a deal was tentatively in place.

    “It’s inappropriate for me to comment on any deal that may or may not happen,” Royals general manager Dayton Moore said. “When and if there is a deal, we’ll make an announcement.”

    The holdup appears to be on the Braves’ end and concerns their ability to work out final details on a trade earlier in the day in which they acquired first baseman Mark Teixeira and reliever Ron Mahay from the Rangers for catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia, shortstop Elvis Andrus and two pitching prospects.

    The non-waiver trading deadline is 3 p.m. Tuesday. The Royals continue to discuss trade possibilities with other club in case talks break down with the Braves.

    The Dodgers, Indians and Mariners have strongly pursued Dotel, who entered Monday’s series opener against the Twins at 2-1 with a 3.91 ERA and 11 saves in 14 opportunities since returning May 22 from the disabled list.

    Davies, 23, has spent parts of the last three seasons in the Braves’ rotation but has yet to reach their projection of a front-line starter. He was demoted recently to Class AAA Richmond after going 4-8 with a 5.76 ERA in 17 starts.

    Davies was the Braves’ fourth-round pick in 2001 as a 17-year-old and reached the majors in 2005. He is a combined 14-21 with a 6.15 ERA in 52 games, including 45 starts, in parts of three seasons.

  255. I agree that it doesn’t bother me that a guy has local connections, and in some cases (draft especially) it makes sense (not feeling confident with Boras looming over, though).

    But rest assured, I’ll be rooting for Mark Davis every step of the way. (Sorry.)

  256. Hmmm…I’m not sure I like sending Davies for Dotel. Unless JS is working to use Thorman (somehow) in a deal for a starter, I think Davies is needed at least to get another starter.

  257. JoeyT – as long as they are credited and online somewhere, there’s no copyright issue, as far as I see. That’s kind of how blogs work.

  258. I am with Murphy. Davies looks like one of many pitchers we touted that just doesn’t have that Major League confidence.

    The game where he couldn’t even record an out may have been the last straw.

    And c’mon, if Davies is going to Kansas City, it’s not like he’s even in a position to come back & haunt us.

  259. Noticed that too. I thought that was the excerpt, it was so short.

    Alex – I hear you. But don’t you think if we are to trade for a starter, the other team might want one in return? It is conceivable that other GM’s might want Davies (especially if KC does.)

  260. if kc really wants to deal.. i’d throw in davies for greinke :)

    give davies time and i think he’d be ok, but i guess i’d be ok dealing him for a decent SP

  261. Coz,

    You’d always like to get more, I agree, it’s possible we maybe get more but Davies has been SO BAD, that to get a high quality relief pitcher for a guy who looks like he doesn’t belong in the Majors, is hard to pass up.

    But I would have preferred to deal Thorman, who carries even less value.

  262. Not a big Dotel fan either. Couldn’t care much less about Davies, though.

    ERA 3.91 | WHIP 1.52

    Yeah, I’ll have that?…

  263. For Dotel, it looks like it is Davies +.

    It is hard to imagine we would get Dotel for only Thorman when you consider the other teams in the hunt for him.

  264. Wow, busy day today with trades and rumors of more trades. I’m glad the Teixeira deal finally got done, and, while I don’t know about having to give up four prospects, at least we got a reliever too.

    As far as the Lillibridge power debate goes, he might not have much power on a consistant basis, but I was at an R-Braves game a couple of weeks ago and he hit a Grand Slam in the bottom of the ninth to win the game. The ball didnt just clear the fence, either, it went a long way over. It must have carried well over 400 feet.

    This has to be a record number of posts on Braves Journal for an off day.

  265. and i hear now its definatley davies for dotel and its done deal as soon as the other deal goes through….its crazy smells of desperation really

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