161 thoughts on “Game Thread: May 10, Braves at Marlins”

  1. For influencing how the game is viewed & evaluated, it’s tough to argue against James in the HoF.

    I kinda look at Bill James like Led Zeppelin. His best work will always stand the test of time, but it’s often misinterpreted or misunderstood. And, for my taste, way too many imitators.

  2. Bill James is to baseball as Velvet Underground is to rock’n’roll. VU is in the the R’n’R HOF; therefore, James should be in the baseball HOF.

  3. ububba, the difference between Led Zep and Bill James is that James didn’t rip off most of the stuff he did from dead, black blues artists.

  4. Smitty, you must not have read Robert Johnson’s King of the Delta Win Shares.

    One of my favorites.

  5. I just noticed that Jeff Francoeur and Juan Encarnacion have nearly identical statistics this year.

    In fact, the similarities between the two are kind of scary. Juan splashes in the league in 1998 at 22 (he did have 33 ABs in 1997) with a .915 OPS in 164 ABs. In 1999, he became a regular and fell back to earth, and has never really been more than roster-filler. He’s never had another .800-plus season since 1998.

  6. Well,

    1. Francoeur was 21 last year, not 22.
    2. Encarnacion very likely has a baseball age.
    3. It’s rare for a player to do so well that young and not have a good career.

  7. It looks to me like Francoeur is coming out of it. He’s nowhere near as hopeless-looking as he was a couple weeks ago. He still swings at pitches he shouldn’t, but hey, at least he’s actually earning his sixth spot in the order, at the moment.

  8. I have no idea Stu! I was wondering the same thing though!

    DOB said a few minutes ago…

    “Giles is benched tonight. Bobby’s giving him a day off, has Orr leading off and playing second.

    Giles said it’s probably a good move, even though he said he’s fine physically, that his hand isn’t causing his struggles. It’s just one day, Bobby said.”

  9. So, I’m watching the only bullpen worse than ours in MLB (Devil Rays) and had a thought after watching Eddie Guardado pitch a perfect 9th for the Mariners (down 1-0).

    Why wouldn’t the Mariners try to trade Guardado to the Braves? Eddie’s not done, but he can see the finish line. Plus, the Mariners have Putz and Soriano to close and set up.

    Guardado, 35, might actually be a good add for us if he wasn’t very costly. On the downside, his salary (as listed on ESPN) is too high at $6.25 million this year. If we paid a prorated salary beginning at the trade deadline, it might be manageable though.

    Also, I’m just not sure what we would have that would interest them in trade–that we’d be willing to deal. They’re set in the infield and have a decent OF with a couple young guys in the minors that could come up there.

    I guess we could send one of our younger relievers or some moderate prospect. I wouldn’t want us to necessarily do anything right now, until we figure out what we can get out of our younger relievers this year, but it’s a viable option, I think.

  10. By “decent OF” in this case, I mean the Mariners have a “playable” outfield that they can bring up guys from the farm to supplement without feeling panicked about it. So, we’d have to send them someone better than they have in the minors. Ibanez and Everett aren’t real good, but they won’t kill you, and Jeremy Reed is still young enough and plays enough D to keep around.

    Any other relievers out there *that might be available* that y’all see?

  11. We need a proven bullpen guy.

    Like Danny K.? I’d rather have a good one than a proven one.

    The talk about blues musicians made me remember the lengthy discussion of jazz, and James’ dislike for it, when talking about the Astros in the ’86 or ’87 Abstract. But somehow, I still see James as Miles Davis – brilliant, creative, original … but a loner sometimes off on the edge of the group.

  12. Gant is flashing some knowledge about NASCAR right now — makes for a good interview. Which would be fine, except there’s a ballgame going on.

  13. Could the camera by any further away from Gant, Waltrip, and Rathbun?

    I mean, come on, can we not stick a cameraman in the booth?

    ..and now let’s watch an empty garage.

  14. Could Waltrip be any further from Rathbun?

    Come on Ronnie, you and DW need to get a hotel, k?

  15. Pete & Joe criticizing Joe Girardi for not walking Langerhans to pitch to Davies there.

    “If Girardi’s going to bash his team for not playing well, he should bash himself for not managing well”

  16. Andrew’s ball hits the pitcher…Abercromie’s ball hits the base. Is it going to be one of those nights?

  17. So what was with Hanley’s hit. Did he just outrun the throw from Renteria or did he bobble it?

  18. The Mets are crucifying the Phillies, and Kyle is serving it up on a silver platter to the worst team in the division…I want to puke.

  19. This is the worst team in baseball, Ivy. Maybe the worst in the past several seasons. This is beyond embarassing.

  20. This is essential a AA team with Miguel Cabrera, and he’s not even beating us. Ridiculous.

  21. Well I don’t know if they are worse than the Royals. Their payroll may be low but at least they have some talent, which can’t necessarily be said about KC.

  22. Also, while this umpires seems to be fairly consistent, he has absolutely no idea where the plate is.

  23. We need another one of those big innings we’ve seen over the last two days. If we could do it next inning, that would help…

  24. He’s been behind every hitter this game, walked the #8 hitter and hit a batter. Terribly pitched game.

  25. And if Rathbun and Gant know he’s throwing curves with two strikes on the hitters, you know the Marlins know it. Maybe it’s time for McCann and Davies to change it up a bit. Sheesh. I’m so depressed.

  26. I meant inconsistent from game to game. He’s either dominant or giving up runs every inning.

  27. 1 breakout game against the Mets, 1 good game against a has-been (or never-was) pitcher, and then they struggle (1 unearned run & a Davies meltdown) against the worst team (agreeing with Stu) in the league…every time I look for a reason to believe, that reason evaporates. Bottom line, they are not as good this year (to date) as they have been in the past…

  28. It’s because JC’s not pitching tonight that we’re losing, Matt. What happened to that line-up? I was raking in the 2-hole.

  29. Stu-

    That’s it. No more nights off. You think you’re up for some pinch hitting tonight?

  30. I wish someone would shut the drunk guy in the background on FSN up. Course, if I was at that game, I’d probably be drinking, too…

  31. I would say the stadium/opponent/4,000 fans would make the team lose it’s spark, but they looked fine last night. You can’t do this s— when you’re 7 games out.

  32. Ok, who the hell is Josh Johnson and why can’t we do sh– against this guy? So frustrating to potentially lose ground to the damn Mets tonight.

  33. We are getting the Andruw I used to loathe. Where is last year’s Andruw? Did he go back to his old stance or something?

  34. Seriously. They said on TV he’s trying to emulate albert pujols; well, andruw, you have a ways to go.
    Mets up 12-3.

  35. We have to managed more than one unearned run against the Marlins! I mean, we might not be great, but we aren’t the Royals, either.

  36. I see a little bit of Mercker when I watch McBride pitches. Not sure if that’s good or bad…

  37. Mac, no more links to begin game threads. They obviously don’t work either.

    Now we’ll get to see the Florida bullpen. Hopefully that will cure tonight’s offensive woes…

  38. I hate to ask, but why isn’t jordan playing? he seems hot right now and is hitting over .320. Let him play until he cools off–laroche has been cool from day 1.

  39. Nothing is going, we can’t get anything even started.

    The Braves yet again making bad teams look good.

    And what’s worse we could lose two out of three tomorrow.

  40. To lose a game like this, makes me feel we deserve to give the Mets the division. If there was ever a series we need to sweep, it’s against the horrible Marlins with no Sosa for us and no Willis for themno friggin’ excuses.

  41. Wow, this is bad. I’m off to find something to do that’s less depressing. Hopefully I’ll miss a big comeback and the beginning of a hot streak for my team!

  42. I’m with you, Alex. If we lose 2/3 here, I’m ready to start scoreboard watching for the wild card.

  43. Memo to JS: it feels like you are waking from your slumber and attempting to help the bullpen, but Chad Paronto and Peter Moylan aren’t quite what we had in mind.
    Signed,
    Collective braves fans

  44. At least facing Willis will kick LaRoche off the starting lineup…hey I am looking at the positives!!!

    Forget about it, the Braves are playing like the Marlins tonight.

  45. Always one step foward and two steps back. We get a game on the Mets and give it right back the next friggin’ day.

    And who is that idiot who keeps yelling stuff at the Braves, both yesterday and tonight? What I’ve heard:

    1. Hey Pete Orr, it says here you only have a .200 on base percentage.

    2. Why did you hit your foot you idiot (after Langerhans fouled a pitch off himself.)

    3. Andruw, is that a (something) on your back pocket.

    Somebody throw him out.

  46. 1. They should be playing Jordan, somewhere, while he’s white hot.

    2. Peter Moylan is a piece of crap. Buh bye loser.

    3. Pete Orr is NOT A LEADOFF HITTER COX.

    I am damned tired of Cox.

    Losing the one game we made up to the Mets the next night with a Davies-Josh Johnson pitching match up makes me feel like I am out of breath. I hate it.

  47. Ok, I just came home from dinner and turned the game on, and I am seriously depressed. I don’t know how the score got this way, and I really don’t care. All I know is that we are getting beat soundly by a AAA squad. Sucks.

  48. Agree, Dan. However, with a crowd of 25 people, I doubt they’ll kick anyone out. Watching the Braves lose in grand fashion to a minor league team in a city where no one cares… this is more painful to watch than “Terms of Endearment”.

  49. Yeah it’s hilarious. What’s sad is that the streak didn’t have to end this year. We could have retooled and come back better with a mission to challenge for the world series. Instead, JS took a team that couldn’t win a playoff series and made them worse.
    If I did that in my job, I’d be fired.

  50. And then I have to hear that the Marlins have pulled Sergio Mitre and stuck Willis against us. Sometimes, doesn’t it just feel like life is just kicking your ass?

  51. The problem, Alex, is that Giles isn’t a leadoff hitter either. Our leadoff hitter is playing for the dodgers.

  52. There have been too many games this year where we’ve been the fire hydrant instead of the dog.

  53. Alex, Josh Johnson actually had better stats coming into tonight than Davies. So, it’s not all that surprising. The sad part is that the Braves offense is making Johnson the second coming of Josh Beckett, and Davies is terribly inconsistent with his control.

  54. brad, you are right, this team can’t freaking win a playoff series even if they can pull away with another divisional title.

  55. I’m telling you guys, and I called this in April, by the time JS and Cox wake up from this nightmare, it will be too late. We’re doing our usual ‘patience’ sh– where we take april and may off, but this year is different, I’m telling you. No one believes me.

  56. 2 hits since the 2nd inning. YOU CAN’T TAKE GAMES OFF WHEN YOU’RE 7 GAMES OUT, GUYS. You already took april off; eventually, we’re going to need you to start playing.

  57. brad, I agree this looks like the end. I think most believe you, but like so many hard truths in life, no one wants to admit it yet…

  58. Reitsma just gave up a triple and andruw’s hurt again. Now if my dog would just die this night would be complete.

  59. The streak is over!

    Well, I am still not too sure about the Mets and the Phillies, but I am very sure the Braves team is not good enough. JS never actually replaced Hampton, and he didn’t even try to build a bullpen.

    I love Reitsma. No matter in what circumstances, everybody hits hard off him.

  60. Back from 7.0 to 8.0. Crap. Let’s pick it up and take advantage of a horrible (this year) Willis.

    I thought demanding a sweep was too much, but I said we NEED two out of three, I was hoping to take care of that tomorrow.

    No baseball tonight for me tonight.

  61. Trade Reitsma for the popcorn kid, section 108, Turner Field. I’d have more faith in our cLOSER if we did.

  62. Brad,

    I agree with you. We cannot compete with this garbage collection of a bullpen and players like LaRoche and guys like Giles batting leadoff.

  63. If the Braves can’t beat Willis, that means they are not even good enough to beat the Canadians and the Koreans.

  64. “I guess it’s somewhat safe to say “It’s still early” seeing as how at this writing we’re barely two weeks into May but the Braves’ lack of consistency so far definitely troubles me. I’ve come to expect that the bullpen won’t coast through the season on cruise control but I do expect decent offense from the Tomahawks. Why are we playing AL “Wait For The Three-Run Homer” ball instead of good ole NL smallball/smartball of the kind that has been proven to produce division titles and World Series championships? Are we too cool to swipe a base? Take a walk? Plonk down some well-placed situational hits or sacrifice fly balls instead of trying to make the “Baseball Tonight” highlight reel? Good grief, y’all – PLAY THE GAME.

    There’s a piece to this puzzle that hasn’t yet been filled and I’ve been trying to figure out what it is. For the life of me, so far, I cannot. But one thing I notice: I don’t see that same fire and energy that was so evident last season. The Babies have grown into regular old Braves and The Ted has that old, staid businesslike feel to it again.”

    http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/bravesfans/entries/2006/05/08/its_still_early.html

  65. Let’s see, perhaps this lineup will work better…

    Langerhans
    Giles
    Chipper
    Andruw
    McCann
    Renteria
    LaRoche
    Frenchy

  66. Alex, did LaRoche do something too you? It seems to go beyond bad hitting with you, you mention (in some way) LaRoche and how much you think he sucks almost every post.

    It has too be personal. What did he do to you? Refuse an autograph? Sheesh.

  67. Our closer, ladies and gentleman.

    When was the last Braves team that had no leadoff hitter, no closer, no bullpen, no first baseman, and LF/RF with less than a year in the league?

  68. Um, I have NEVER met LaRoche…he just sucks and I hate the way he plays Baseball…thats all.

  69. Dan, Alex and I share a disdain for laroche felt by few others. We study his atbats and notice trends–namely, he has a looooong slooooow swing that lends itself to a myriad of slow grounder and weak popups. His defense is marginal. He also runs like my grandmother and looks like he’s trying to work calculus problems in his mind while playing.
    So we just don’t like him.
    But Cox does.

  70. boy, i thought you all said the mets were only good because we had only plaied the marlins and nats. Well what now?

    cheers
    dan

  71. But honestly, I think I hate Reitsma more. He actually costs us games, whereas Laroche usually just kills innings.

  72. brad, add me to your group. Adam’s defense is better than Jordan though…if that means anything at all.

    I love Reitsma.

  73. Those of us who have long been on the Reitsma bandwagon are at least happy to see his ERA where it belongs.

    I wonder what excuses Bobby will make for him now?

  74. I know many, including some pitchers on the Braves’ staff, said we wouldn’t miss Leo at the beginning of the season. Any comments on that now?

  75. Stephen, “he hasn’t been pitching much recently. It’s good for him to stretch out his arm tonight.”

  76. I don’t miss Leo. Baltimore leads the majors in walks and their staff is awful.
    These guys were bad last year WITH Leo. Reitsma has sucked since we got him 2 years ago. Moylan was pitching on a dusty field somewhere in Australia recently, Chad Paronto looks like he works at McDonalds, Remlinger is 100 years old, etc.
    The problem lies solely on JS’s shoulders, as I said before the season started.

  77. The bandwagon comment was meant ironically–in other words those of us who have long thought that Reitsma sucked now hope that the world will see just how profoundly bad he sucks.

    Yeah, “he needed to stretch out his arm tonight and regain his confidence”….

  78. Can’t disagree with you, brad. No coach in the world can turn crap into shining gold… There just is no way to polish a terd.

  79. If I am Chipper, I would feel betrayed and ask JS to give me back that $4M a year. Where is the improvement?

  80. Good night, all. I’m going to perform a self lobotomy. Figured it would be less painful than waching this…

  81. Chipper: what happened to my $4M?
    JS: The Braves will make a $4M profit this year. Thanks Chipper.

  82. Marlins,
    I hope you enjoyed getting off the slide thanks to our clueless manager and GM. I realize you have been swept 4 times this season in just over a month, but we take april and may off, so no worries.
    You’re welcome for Moylan and Reitsma.
    Sincerely,
    Braves

  83. Leo is definately in the tank in Baltimore. Ironically, the Braves’ campaign of disinformation was essentially correct. There are no miracle workers in baseball except for Bobby Cox. The Braves are fucked — a big market team with a small market salary…In Tampa, we saw an owner making tons of cash off a team that was engineered not to win. That is the Braves now. Time-Warner will rake in the bucks as long as they can and Cox’s magic only plays into their hands…They don’t care about baseball or history or championships. The all-mighy dollar is all that counts. I know my view is naiive but, hell, Atlanta deserves to win without prejudice….No checkbook, folks!!!

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