San Francisco 5 Atlanta 3

ESPN.com – MLB – Box Score – Giants at Braves

Dreadful. Once again, the themes of the series:

1. The starting pitcher starting off really strong, then tiring, and Bobby not going to the pen in time.

2. Lots and lots of runners left on base.

Hudson threw six really strong innings. Unfortunately, he pitched seven innings in all, and got beat up in the seventh for three runs. He’d allowed three hits in the second without really giving up a hard-hit ball, and pretty much kept the Giants in check other than that, but in the seventh let the first two runners on. After they gave up outs to get one in, runner in scoring position with two out, Hudson allowed a blast to Randy Freaking Winn to give the Giants the lead, and ultimately the ballgame.

The Braves had 13 baserunners on the night, stranding nine and hitting into a double play. Again, if you have a lot of baserunners you’ll leave some on, but you need to score more than a quarter of your baserunners. LaRoche had a two-out double to score Giles, but hit into the double play as well. Also the Braves didn’t send Andruw (who was at first) home with two out, which is weird because he should have been running.

Marcus was 3-5 and missed the cycle by the homer, but struck out to end the game. The only Braves regular to go hitless was, remarkably, Francoeur. Langerhans got the start in left and had a couple of hits, and also reached on an error. (I thought he was out.)

Kolb and Foster combined to allow another run in the eighth, just to make it more difficult. Brower finished that for them, then McBride pitched the ninth.

The Mets, as you probably know by now, lost not only the ballgame but Mike Cameron and Carlos Beltran; their season hangs by a thread. The Marlins lost, the Astros are beating the Natspos again, the Phillies trail early… Jorge Sosa, who stays in the rotation at the expense of Horacio Ramirez, will start tomorrow as the D-Backs come to town, with Claudio Vargas the opponent.

86 thoughts on “San Francisco 5 Atlanta 3”

  1. First, the Horacio thing: When I heard Skip & Joe talking about it, I was of course very excited…Horacio is ABSOLUTELY the first guy who deserves to lose his rotation spot, plus it gives us an extra Lefty in the pen.

    But interestingly, Skip didn’t understand the move because Horacio has 10 wins…Joe, thank God, was the voice of reason and said it may have something to do with his jekyl & hyde performance on the road with a 6+ road ERA.

    Regarding this loss: it sucks. I hate, hate, hate losing games like this. At home, Hudson on the mound, a lead LATE, and the Giants are missing both Bonds & Alou…and we lose. The Giants stink overall…it’s just not a game we should blow and if for some reason, we lose the division or miss the Playoffs at the end of the year by one game, I will tbhink back to shit losses like this one. Just aggravating. Thank God it seems the rest of the division cooperated.

  2. in the last 2 series LaRoche has started 5 games and pinch hit in one game. He has 22 lob’s during that time.

  3. On a similar note, Betemit, for the second night in a row, had a spectacular defensive play at third. Chipper has to learn to play first some time. Best if it’s well before the playoffs.

    If not that, at least let Franco play there full time. He’s about as good as LaRoche against righties, and he’s, obviously, far, far superior against lefties. With Franco starting, a lefty reliever won’t kill a rally late in a game.

  4. I’ve been out, so I don’t know if this has been mentioned:

    Michael Kay on the radio:

    Heard his rumor independent of Gammons (who also said the same thing)

    Two big names, one in the NL, one in the AL tested positive.

    One would shock you – not the type anyone has speculated on, the other one would disappoint you.

    Very big names.

  5. Furthermore…

    Kay said one was a “near HOF” quality player and the other was a “HOF lock.” And there’s a suggestion in the thread over there, but it’s not clear, that he said that the HOF lock is the AL player.

  6. Unless there’s a leak, we won’t know whom until after the season, due to the lengthy appeals process.

  7. I don’t know why these people don’t just stick to the HGH. It gets results, it doesn’t show up in any current urine tests, and, since they don’t freeze samples, it will never show up.

    What’s so great about these other drugs?

  8. Re: Positive Test Report
    It wouldn’t be Clemens if the NL guy is merely “near HOF quality.”

    Don’t wanna speculate too much (as I speculate here), but as someone already mentioned it & he did appear before Congress & he did go from skinny-to-fullback size, etc., I’ll concur that Sosa is the obvious first guess for the AL guy. On numbers, he’d be a “HOF lock.”

    I have an NL guess (or at least someone who, in my mind, fits the description), but I’ll keep it to myself for the moment. I’ll let someone else jump off that board first.

  9. 1. The starting pitcher starting off really strong, then tiring, and Bobby not going to the pen in time.

    You say this after almost every game now. Just curious, after seeing the dreadful things that happen after our bullpen gets involved in games what makes you think that they would have handled the jam any better? More to the point, who would you like to see try to escape a jam: a tiring Smoltz or Hudson or sucky reliever X? I’ll take the starters every time despite the last two games. I mean when Hudson was in trouble in the seventh, Bobby had Brower and Foster warming. Do you really think those two would have helped the situation? Bobby rides his starters because that’s all he’s got.

    Winning two of three from the Giants is nothing to get upset about. They came in having taken two of three from a hot Houston team, so they aren’t that terrible. If we keep winning series like this, we’ve got nothing to worry about.

  10. Oh, and I’ll take Pudge Rodriguez and Jeff Kent in the steroids pool. Pudge because he’s seems to have been replaced by his own Mini Me this season, and Kent because I just don’t like him.

  11. Haha. This is like a riddle.

    So, since, for some reason, I can’t sleep at all, I’ve been reading message boards. Here are the clues.

    One is from the AL, one from the NL.

    One is a pitcher, one a position player.

    One is surprising, one is obvious.

    One is shocking, one is crushing.

    One guy will “take Major League Baseball out at the knees” (or “by the knees”, reports vary).

    There are whispers that it’s Clemens and Giambi, but those are sketchy.

    It’s said this is known by a decent number of people. Like, even down to some scouts.

    I, personally, would buy that Giambi is one. It’s “disappointing” and “obvious” all at the same time. The “crushing” part is because the source of that statement (Kay) is with the Yanks.

  12. If you want to “take Major League Baseball out at the knees”, start lower – the bloody sock? I’ll guess Curt Schilling and Jim Edmonds, though Clemens and Pudge makes sense.

  13. Will Carroll also noted that Selig admitted earlier this week that a “young player” is already in the appeals process. Nothing else beyond that, but given the current state of the system & potential Congressional oversight, it’s likely to be true. But, how young, and given that, is this separate from the speculation elsewhere (noted above)? Unless this is Albert Pujols or Miguel Cabrera or someone along those lines, I’ve gotta think it’s different, though those guys would also be pretty big shocks.

  14. OK, we’ve dived in. Pitcher? Clemens could be “crushing,” especially coming from Kay.

    Funny timing here: At the Yanks/Chisox game at Yankee Stadium the other night I had a running conversation with someone about the possibility of Clemens on the juice. I asked him the obvious Bonds-related question: Who in the history of the major leagues has ever gotten THIS better at this age? His answer was that Clemens’ numbers are merely indicative of the difference between the AL & the NL. I told him to measure the power alleys at Minute Maid Park & give me another reason beside that.

    Giambi/Sosa–don’t have to use much imagination there. However, Giambi can’t be considered a borderline HOF at all. He ain’t there, no way, so maybe it’s not him (despite his recent power surge).

    Did anybody think of Bonds? I seem to remember some report earlier this year that he “tested clean,” but who the hell knows? I tend to share that conspiracy theory that Bonds is not wanted back by MLB.

    In addition to Kent, another name that crossed my mind was Bagwell. Both could be considered borderline HOF.

    This whole thing is getting twisted, eh?

  15. Again, if you have a lot of baserunners you’ll leave some on, but you need to score more than a quarter of your baserunners very true, that was an issue tonight.

    Hudson had a filthy breaking ball going.

  16. I don’t think Clemens’ body would have held up so well if he was on the juice. Pitcher is hard on the back, and at his age I don’t think he’d be able to do it with the added deterioration of steriods. But I could be way off. Frankly though, I’m not really sold on the idea that steriods help a pitcher more than they hurt them.

  17. The joint statement put out yesterday looked like a classic non-denial denial. It basically said that no reports were being delayed to make star players look good. I didn’t see anything else in there of substance, though I may have missed it. I’m throwing that out the window, because they insist that Palmeiro’s wasn’t “delayed” and it still took forever. I don’t think Selig has much integrity, but he did say that only one “younger” player was in the system. Of course, 95% of the league is younger than Palmeiro.

    So nobody’s said anything that I’ve heard that keeps me from believing that there’s one huge name out there. I wonder about two, but, like I said, Selig has no apparent personal integrity so I’m not really taking his word on anything. Anyway, the buzz sounds like today might be a very interesting day.

  18. Well, the buzz has been going around for a few days, so don’t be so sure that the names will come out right away.
    Also, I believe someone asked what the source was. It was Michael Kay on the radio. Peter Gammons among others have also mentioned the same thing.

    …it is sad that we went from discussing who the braves might be dealing for to guessing who might be dealing with public humility and, god forbid, 10 days off. Good job steriods.

  19. If we want to go back to the trade thing… Rondell White is back to playing the OF. I don’t imagine the Braves are all that interested in another OF anymore, though.

    Back to the Mets momentarily. Losing Beltran may be a different story, but they might be able to absorb the loss of Cameron because that Diaz kid can flat-out rake.

    Oh, the main reason I think today might be the day is that Will Carroll indicated it would be. But he also wasn’t at all definitive about that.

  20. Say that you are on the juice, get caught, take your ten games off and then come back. Is anyone out there familiar enough with steroids to know how long it takes for the effects to “wear off?” Seems to me that the suspension penalty should be at least this long. Just curioius.

  21. O ok, creynolds, I didn’t see what day they expected it to come out. I heard about it first on Tuesday so I figured until the appeals and all that fun stuff, it would be a while till it was public. Who knows.

  22. Generally, it depends what exactly you are on, CJ. I’m not familiar with exactly how long for each one, but I am certain that it differs.

  23. …and Andruw lost 30 pounds this past offseason. I have considerable doubt that it is him. I also don’t think he’s that stupid.

  24. If Andruw were on steroids, people would have to reconceive “roid rage”.

    Don’t be ridiculous. Andruw is the last guy on the planet, let alone the team, who would be juicing.

    I’m not saying it couldn’t be a Brave, but I’d bet every penny I own it’s not Andruw.

  25. As long as it’s not Andruw or Smoltz, doesn’t bother me. If I had a guess, Eckstien, just kidding…

    Big Pappi and Pedro

  26. Have any of you taken a good look at Sammy Sosa lately? I watch a lot of O’s games (obviously) and he has dropped a LOT of bulk in the off-season. I don’t think he’s juicing any more. And how could Giambi be that stupid? He’s already admitted to using them once, what could possibly be his motivation to do it again? Unless his masking agent didn’t work, which is a possibility.

    It’s very interesting how these rumors picked up steam. I first saw it all over the MLB message boards, where I post because I don’t actually have to think through things like I do here ;-), and apparently the players have been speculating for quite some time as well. Like creynolds, I don’t trust Selig any farther than I can throw him, so just because he denies something doesn’t mean it’s not true. There are so many possibilities that I don’t even want to guess, except I’ll say that if it’s anyone on the Braves (Furcal would be my prime suspect, and maybe even Marcus) or the Red Sox (yes, Big Papi does come to mind) I will be extremely upset. If it’s someone on the Orioles (Javy? Brian Roberts?) then those rumors that Palmeiro got stanozolol from a teammate begin to look more plausible. All I can say is, I hope it’s a Yankee.

  27. I don’t know who tested positive and I don’t care. Just hope baseball institutes olympic style testing policy soon.

    I got to actually watch a game for the first time in eons last night. Had one question, McCann let the wild pitch get by him by taking a back hand stab at it instead of sliding over and trying to block the ball. Has he looked good behind the plate?

    Hopefully the return of Thomson will have a trickle down effect to the pen. I am glad they decided to keep Sosa in the rotation. Horacios performance doesn’t give me a lot of hope for him as a reliever. I think he is looking at being left off the post season roster right now.

    ON another note: Who can we expect to be called up when rosters expand?

  28. I find that I don’t really care. Just as I don’t care about the evident widespread use of steroids by the Alabama football team, where suddenly everybody is fifteen to twenty pounds heavier. That’s just me, though.

  29. I don’t think Marcus or Furcal are boarder line HOFers just yet. Marcus, Julio, Jordan are my top three Braves suspects, if ther ever were any.

    Thome, Piazza, Puljos, Berkman, Dunn, Kearns, Kent, Bonds, L.Gonzo are the ones that cross my mind and possible NL juicers that could get nailed.

  30. The only thing I’m sure of is that the rumors will be more fun than whatever actually happens. Even if it’s a Yankee… well, especially if it’s a Yankee… none of it will be worth all the hysteria and false outrage that follows.

    In other words, let’s enjoy this part as much as we can :)

  31. Haha. Julio? No way is he on steriods. The man has the best workout regime in baseball and he is 47. He eats right and works his ass off. He is not on steroids.

  32. I’m not saying he is (or that he isn’t), but isn’t that a rather silly defense? I mean, I know it’s somewhat instinctive to look at a guy who works out religiously, eats well religiously and worships God/Jesus, well, religiously and think he’s not on anything. But that’s the same defense that LaRussa gave for Big Mac. Of course steroid users have tough workout schedules. The steroids don’t make you gain muscle, they enable you to work out more often and more intensely to gain more muscle.

  33. Oh I hope its Kent, I just wish nothing but the worse for that assbag. Ortiz on the otherhand, would be bad for baseball, as would Pujols. Let’s hope its a jerk like Sheffield or Kent.

    Looking past the stats on HoRam, what about the pyschological aspect of being demoted to the pen. Here’s a guy who has ten wins on the year, second on the team, pitched well when we initially lost Thomson and Hampton, and now has lost his spot to a pitcher that the Devil Rays didn’t want anymore. As bad as he has pitched, this demotion could make it even worse.

  34. 1) JB, it’s ridiculous to think Ramirez won’t be on the playoff roster. He’s left handed, and half of the time, he’s a really good pitcher–that combination is enough to keep him on the team. I mean, seriously, I’d rather have him than, say, Jim Brower, just to name one pitcher.

    2) Adam Dunn on steroids? No way, unless he started juicing in his teens, before he had national media exposure. He’s always been huge and strong. Same with Thome.

  35. creynolds is right. That is why a lot of pitchers have been busted. It doesn’t make them throw harder, it helps with the recovery time.

  36. I don’t think Julio is on the juice, but he is twice as big as he was when he played for Cleveland.

  37. That’s just an optical illusion. The jerry curl made him look smaller than he actually was :)

  38. Furcal? Just going by body type. Possibility. Of course, he’s been legally proven to have a certain lack of judgement.

    Marcus doesn’t seem to have the same power this year, does he?

    On a related note: Ever seen his brother up close? He looks like Fred Flintstone.

  39. I don’t think hes on the juice either. I seriously doubt it.

    As for JJ, I’d love to see him make his debut this year. I always liked him. We just need to find him a position.

  40. Can Juries not play left? I would like his power more than I like Kelly Johnson’s “eye of the strike zone.”
    I hope the rocket gets nailed, say around the second week of October…

  41. Jurries, to the best of my knowledge, has played 1B, 3B, COF, and DH. His power stroke would be nice and he is hot now, upping his average to .289. I don’t think he will get the call until the rosters expand, however.

  42. It’s kinda hard to give the guy credit for anything, but in spit of this quote:

    Imagine the waiver wire as a fashion show where up to seven players per day per team are walking down a runway in front of the general managers.

    Steve Phillips has a pretty good article on espn.com about how waiver deals work.

  43. I found this in an old thread at Baseball America from early 2005: Kind of like dejavu!!! Apparently the boy has a track record for waiting for that first walk.

    Q:dave from maryland asks:
    will jeff franceour start 2005 at AA Jackson or AAA Richmond?
    A:Bill Ballew: I see him at Double-A Mississippi after he failed to walk once in just 76 at-bats at Double-A Greenville last year.

  44. Imagine an inning as a fashion show where at least three players walk down a runway in front of the pitcher.

  45. Imagine Sportscenter as a fashion show where at least seven Yankees or Red Sox stories per day are walking down a runway in front of Mark Shapiro.

  46. Imagine Eagles training camp as a fashion show where up to seven players don’t walk down a runway in front of Andy Reid because they’re holding out or suspended.

  47. Imagine Steve Phillips imagining seven players per team per day walking by him on a cat walk.

    EWWWW… sorry about that.

  48. Why is Andruw exempt from steroids suspension but Furcal isn’t because of his lack of judgment? Have we all forgotten about Andruw’s strip club incident? Andruw is having a really breakout season, guys. Furcal is struggling. You take steroids to be better. I think we have it twisted.

  49. No doubt what Furcal did is worse, even though it is more common. But just because Andruw Jones didn’t get in any legal trouble, it doesn’t mean what he did couldn’t easily be considered illegal. He essentially exchanged sexual favors for special treatment. Since he let that disgusting guy watch and got VIP treatment in exchange, it’s hard to see it any other way. And since the girls were paid to have sex with him, even though it was by someone else, and he almost certainly knew that… well, that’s illegal too. Andruw Jones didn’t just go to a strip club and get a lap dance or slip some bills into a dancer’s garter.

  50. I think what Andruw did, just about anyone in his place would have done. He really didn’t do anything illegal though, kind of nasty, but he never got in any trouble. Furcal has been busted drinking and driving, not once, but twice!

    Andruw had the best quote of the Gold Club trial though,

    “There were two chicks in the room messin’ with each other.”
    Prosecutor: “What did you do then?”
    Jones: “Both of them, count it.”
    -Andrew Jones’s testimony in the Atlanta Gold Club Trial.

  51. For me, drinking and driving raises more questions about Furcal’s judgment than strip clubs raise about Andruw’s. That was a few years ago, right? He was 24, 25 years old? I don’t like to make sweeping generalizations or excuse anything, but young guys do that. Famous athletes in particular have a reputation (or maybe they just get more publicity). It happens, and I don’t really think it’s a huge deal. While I object to strip clubs on moral grounds, I’d rather have someone going there than drinking and driving. That’s just on a different level. Furcal could have killed himself or someone else. And it was the second time, too.

    I don’t think he is on steroids, but if I had to pick the most likely candidates, I would say him and Marcus. A slight loss of power means nothing. Alex Sanchez has NO power at all. Marcus is a 5’7″ guy trying to compete in a 6″2″ world. I’m just saying…I don’t think either one is juiced, but if I had to guess, that would be my guess.

    If Big Papi is juiced, I’ll cry. I really will.

  52. I put the quote on the Face Book.

    If you were the Falcons, wouldn’t you put a package together of a couple of Wide outs and send them to Philly for T.O.?

    I would hate to see Price go (former Vol), but T.O. is an alumnist of my school and is a hell of a player.

    However, how long before T.O. gets pissed because Vick takes off running instead of throwing him the ball?

    Maybe the falcons should get Hines Ward, he could block for Vick down field.

  53. Remember when they first shut down the Gold CLub and Andruws BA took a massive hit and never went back up? I think this year he discovered The Cheata’

  54. No doubt what Furcal did is worse, even though it is more common.

    Obviously, creynolds, you’re attending the wrong typw of parties. :)

  55. lets just stop talking about andruw and furcal on steroids….if ne one is on steroids its a guy named Brian Jordan.

    ok let me get started where in the heck is our championship calibur team that mr John Sherholz promised us….is Brian Jordan and Raul Mondesi considerded championship worthy…..Mondesi sucked all he did was strike out and Brian Jordan should have stuck with the Falcons and WHO IN THE WORLD SIGNED TRAVIS SMITH TO A DEAL LAST YEAR!! GOD THAT GUY WAS AWFUL BUT LIKE JORDAN DUDS ARE ALLOWED TO PLAY BASEBALL……BUT IM SO GLAD TO SEE THAT MONDESI IS BACK FROM WHEREVER HE CAME FROM GETTING FATTER CUZ HE SHOWED UP TO SPRING TRAINING FAT AND OUT OF SHAPE…HIS BAT SPEED WAS LIKE 2MPH AND ALL THOSE 0-4 WITH 4 K’S GAMES ARE GONE…..

    francouer is gold and Johnson needs work.

    im so glad to see us winning

    and im so glad that

    National lie is out the window
    thank you.

  56. Those 30 pounds Andruw lost were all fat! The man couldn’t steal a base during that period, and the only place he was bulked up was around the waist.

  57. That was the “I lose a lot of weight during the season so I thought I’d come in with some to spare” year. In some ways it made a little sense, but mostly it just made me laugh.

  58. If anyone is too young to remember, some of Nolan Ryan’s best years were later, Randy Johnson has also been better than when he was younger.

    I wouldn’t be surprised about Giambi or anyone on the Cardinals lineup. Is there any regular of the Cardinals who hasn’t missed time for injury in the past two or three years? Some of them have been injured multiple times also. If they would stick to one illegal substance, that might not happen.

  59. Stu,

    Easy there buddy, I said in danger of not making the post season roster, not WON’T make it.

    Horacio’s stats during the first 30 pitches of his appearances (from ESPN) this is what I figure for an inning of relief. OBP/SLG/OPS/avg

    0.343 0.456 0.799 0.281

    Not all that awe-inspiring. His K rate is awful, he walks a lot of guys, he doesn’t pitch well with men on base OBP/SLG/OPS/avg

    .395 .642 1.036 .340

    He may make the post seasone roster on account of his left handedness and he is relatively effective against southpaws. However, given Bobby’s penchant for carrying designated runners and third catchers I don’t think it is a sure bet.

    I hope that he pitches well out of the pen. Just don’t see a lot of reason to think he will, he doesn’t have a dominant pitch and is a slow starter.

    I think we are looking at the post season rotation being Smoltz, Hudson, Hampton, Thomson

    Relievers: (Assuming we carry 8) Reitsma, Foster, Sosa, Farnsworth, Boyer, McBride, Davies and either Kolber or Horacio, truly hope not Bower.

    I hope we get to see Jurries or McCarthy, don’t care to see Esix Sneed get the call. Also hoping Thorman gets a cup of coffee. Figure Marte is a sure bet.

  60. God, wouldn’t it be great if Danny boy got nailed with roids? Though, he did look great the other night

  61. McCarthy is out for the year. Snead and Jurries are not on the 40-man; I wouldn’t expect more than one of the two, more likely Snead since he would be no loss, but it might be Kerry Robinson, a slightly better version (which is like saying that Debbie Gibson was better than Tiffany) instead.

  62. I don’t think Davies makes it over HR. I also don’t think we will carry 8 relievers. six or seven should do it. Plus, we can always change our roster between rounds if we need to.Reitsma, Foster, Sosa, Farnsworth, Boyer, HoHum, and maybe Kolb

  63. Wouldnt it be great if that clown Reitsma got caught for steroids. Save us from wathing him blow games for the Braves. But steroids are supposed to help your game not make you stink up the joint so it cant possible be Reitsma.

  64. Steel, you’re ignorant. Plain and simple. Are you familiar with the term, “fixation”? Perhaps you could study the game of baseball and understand how it’s played before posting any further comments.

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